[MJH/SMS]

Hello to everyone on fordfusionforums.I tend to lurk a lot more than post on here. I try to not get too involved in most conversations unless it deals with the Shift Marketing Lincoln Zephyr Project.A couple of us post under the same board name on here so I wil distinguish myself this time as I am speaking from more of a personal level.

My name is Troy and a couple weeks ago I had my Zephyr tuned by Fordchip.This is not the white Zephyr that we have shown on the forums but a new black on black model I bought and will be using to market the SMS parts here in the midwest.To tell you the truth, I have really been surprised at what seems to me to be the unfair targeting of Fordchip in some of these threads.

To me, it seems that Bamachips and Fordchip both offer quality products.I have read that people did not like Petes initial tune so that is why I took in my car to have it tuned on the dyno.I talked to Fordchip a long time ago and this wasnt a possibilty with Bamachips.Also, Pete has been a very pleasurable guy to deal with so I went with him.I like to see the results myself on paper because we all know how easy is to mistake gains when one is using the ever so accurate "butt-dyno".

The stock tune was not at all tampered with as some have been suggesting. The car was in basically off the showroom trim except for a K & N filter.The baseline graph/chart he has been posting is unaltered.I know because I also have a copy.And claims that Pete does not know what he is doing are also unfounded. We didnt just throw the car on the dyno, download a tune, and then call it a day.I was actually there for a couple hours.Pete specially create a tune just for the Lincoln and perfected over the course of maybe 3 or 4 dyno runs just to tune it better.

Without making this post much too long I will say this.The power is there. I say the proof and I can easily feel the difference.Im not going to get on here and start telling you the car is a rocketship or something because it is not.Its still not a sports car.But it is now competitive with other V6's that manufacturers offer such as Nissans VQ series, the Accords V6, and Toyotas new 3.5 .Most noticeable is when you stomp the gas to pass.Really nice kick in the pants relative to before. Gas mileage is fine. At first I thought it was worse but I realized that was just me stomping on the gas a lot more.Ive tried driving it like I have some sense and if there is a difference, its unnoticeable.Car has no governor. How fast is it? Who knows. It still pulling pretty soundly somewhere north of 120mph but you cant tell since the speedo doesnt go that far.The engine now growls a lot more and one of my friends heard me get on it while I drove past and thought it was mustang before he turned and saw the car.While I would go so far as to say its similar sounding to a V8, it is obviously one pissed off sounding 6.Shifts are slightly later if you really stand on it.

I know you guys would like a better power curve comparison between a stock V6 and a modified one so what I will be doing is bringing my car back for another tune with an exhaust but I will be also bringing some version of the stock Fusion/Milan/Zephyr V6 along with me to get a really good comparison and some better graphs for you guys.Also might be able to help Pete perfect the the 3.0 liter duratec tune a little more and you can be sure the results will be posted here asap.Some of you guys need to give Pete a break. The guy does good work and has a money back guarantee.I promise you wont want to return your car to stock however. 8)

P.S. I will be running the lincoln at the Dragstrip once it is tuned with the exhaust on it so we will see just exactly this old man sedan can do.

 

[swoop1156]

I have read, and I have also been a poster with negativity toward Pete. I speak on the condition of honesty and accuracy. Pete played with me, he lied and provided me an inferior product compaired to a competitor.

I am located in Florida, and I am not able to bring my car to him for dyno tuning. As you said that a dyno tune was un-available with Bamachips, where do you base that information from? Because you are located in Michigan, or in the area relative to Pete? Well, I am located in the area of Doug with Bamachips and I can get to a dyno. So, I guess it would be fair to say that Pete has not afforded me an opportunity to dyno tune my car.

Also, if he is all about his money-back gurantee and making customers happy -- why do you suppose that he hasn't offered my his updated tune, if I am so unhappy with the initial tune? I feel that he has blackballed me, because I posted HONESTLY about his tune and service that I, personally, received.

Pete, when you read this, email me your new tune. I will load it up and see what becomes of it. I have a dyno here in the Pensacola area that I am itching to get on. I will run yours, his and Ford's.

I await your reply.

 

[MJH/SMS]

I spoke on the abilty to be dyno tuned due to proximity.I personally think competition is great.I dont know the intricacies of your dealings with Fordchip so I wont comment on them. I would like to help Fordchip provide the best tune possible for the community if I can however.A version will be available specfically for cars with the SMS modifications and we are going to try and get Fordchip a MKZ as soon as possible to see what it puts down stock and what kind of power it can make.

 

[hwm3]

[quote author=MJH/SMS link=topic=55354.msg916852#msg916852 date=1156781883]
The stock tune was not at all tampered with as some have been suggesting. [/quote]

Nobody suggested that the stock tune was tampered with. The stock tune is naturally handicapped on a dyno because of the top speed limiter. Assuming that you make your dyno runs in the 1:1 gear, which is the most accurate method, you'll hit the speed limiter well before you reach peak engine power. The modified tune was allowed to rev to the power peak and beyond.

[quote author=MJH/SMS link=topic=55354.msg916852#msg916852 date=1156781883]
The baseline graph/chart he has been posting is unaltered.I know because I also have a copy.[/quote]

What graph/chart are you referring to? I have yet to see a graph or chart posted, just some random numbers from Pete.

[quote author=MJH/SMS link=topic=55354.msg916852#msg916852 date=1156781883]
And claims that Pete does not know what he is doing are also unfounded. [/quote]

He didn't even know the shift points of the car, and made claims of the stock tune that simply aren't true.

[quote author=MJH/SMS link=topic=55354.msg916852#msg916852 date=1156781883]
The engine now growls a lot more and one of my friends heard me get on it while I drove past and thought it was mustang before he turned and saw the car.[/quote]

Are you serious?

It was nice of Pete to send you here to defend him, but I think you still miss the point. The dyno numbers as provided by Pete mean nothing. We need the full charts to make any kind of comparison. Simply taking the word of someone that is attempting to sell us the tuning isn't good enough for me.

Here's what I'm willing to do if Pete is interested. Bamachips has offered to send me an 87 octane performance tune to try out. If Pete would like to do the same, I'm willing to do an independant, unbiased comparison of the two.

 

[MJH/SMS]

There are charts and a graph.I thought that they were posted. They back up the numbers he is claiming.However we will be waiting until I can run the car again against a completely stock car before any SMS tune numbers are posted.Pete might be waiting until he can get another dyno run where he can lock out gears and then there will be an accurate reading and better comparison graph.

Also, I dont know why you would make comments like "its nice of Pete to send you here to defend him".Pete has asked nothing of me other than to let him know if I like the tune. I just decided that the community here might like to know someones opinion on the tune.What do I get out of it by lying?Would you rather not know my opinion on the new tune and only have his to go by?

And about the mustang comment why would I not be serious? Between the K & N filter, the modified resonator, and the reflash, it does sound a lot meaner than it should.I wouldnt mistake it for a V8 but my friend did.

Look, Fordchip provided me with a quality product, and Pete was very knowledgeable. Everything I have spoken is the truth. Im not trying to make anyone believe anything or change their minds about something.I dont care what tune you decide to buy. I just thought this board would appreciate the information. I hope that I was not wrong.

 

[hwm3]

[quote author=MJH/SMS link=topic=55354.msg917266#msg917266 date=1156792828]
There are charts and a graph.I thought that they were posted. They back up the numbers he is claiming.However we will be waiting until I can run the car again against a completely stock car before any SMS tune numbers are posted.[/quote]

[quote author=MJH/SMS link=topic=55354.msg917266#msg917266 date=1156792828]
Also, I dont know why you would make comments like "its nice of Pete to send you here to defend him".Pete has asked nothing of me other than to let him know if I like the tune. I just decided that the community here might like to know someones opinion on the tune.What do I get out of it by lying?Would you rather not know my opinion on the new tune and only have his to go by?[/quote]

Your a plant. Plain and simple.

[quote author=MJH/SMS link=topic=55354.msg917266#msg917266 date=1156792828]
Look, Fordchip provided me with a quality product, and Pete was very knowledgeable. Everything I have spoken is the truth. Im not trying to make anyone believe anything or change their minds about something.I dont care what tune you decide to buy. I just thought this board would appreciate the information. I hope that I was not wrong.
[/quote]

I would appreciate unbiased testing. You say Pete has the graphs/charts, and so do you, yet nobody has posted them. This is fishy, very fishy.

What products/services does SMS provide?

 

[MJH/SMS]

[quote author=hwm3 link=topic=55354.msg917448#msg917448 date=1156796009]
[quote author=MJH/SMS link=topic=55354.msg917266#msg917266 date=1156792828]
There are charts and a graph.I thought that they were posted. They back up the numbers he is claiming.However we will be waiting until I can run the car again against a completely stock car before any SMS tune numbers are posted.[/quote]

[quote author=MJH/SMS link=topic=55354.msg917266#msg917266 date=1156792828]
Also, I dont know why you would make comments like "its nice of Pete to send you here to defend him".Pete has asked nothing of me other than to let him know if I like the tune. I just decided that the community here might like to know someones opinion on the tune.What do I get out of it by lying?Would you rather not know my opinion on the new tune and only have his to go by?[/quote]

Your a plant. Plain and simple.

[quote author=MJH/SMS link=topic=55354.msg917266#msg917266 date=1156792828]
Look, Fordchip provided me with a quality product, and Pete was very knowledgeable. Everything I have spoken is the truth. Im not trying to make anyone believe anything or change their minds about something.I dont care what tune you decide to buy. I just thought this board would appreciate the information. I hope that I was not wrong.
[/quote]

I would appreciate unbiased testing. You say Pete has the graphs/charts, and so do you, yet nobody has posted them. This is fishy, very fishy.

What products/services does SMS provide?
[/quote]

You + are = you're not "your"

And even then, you'd still be calling me a piece of foliage.

I'm assuming you meant to type something to the likes of "you were planted here"

Anyway, the answers to the other part of your reply I have already addressed either in this thread or elsewhere on the forum.My main point for starting this thread(to inform fellow fusion/milan/zephyr owners) has been accomplished.

 

[hwm3]

[quote author=MJH/SMS link=topic=55354.msg917804#msg917804 date=1156804367]
You + are = you're not "your"

And even then, you'd still be calling me a piece of foliage.

I'm assuming you meant to type something to the likes of "you were planted here"

Anyway, the answers to the other part of your reply I have already addressed either in this thread or elsewhere on the forum.My main point for starting this thread(to inform fellow fusion/milan/zephyr owners) has been accomplished.
[/quote]

:roll: I guess you are the grammar police now too.

I'm just pointing out that your opinion of Pete and Fordchips is biased. You obviously have some sort of business relationship with him.

I've made an offer to give an unbiased evaluation of the Fordchip tune, and the Bamachips tune. I expect I'll have the Bamachips tune by the end of the week. If Pete is interested in this, he can PM, email, or catch me on AIM. I already own the Xcal2, so it would only take a simple email to get me the tune.

 

[swoop1156]

Wow, this is alot like my old thread on here.

hwm3, I DID provide an un-biased test on here. I bought a tune from Pete as well as Bob. Pete said I was a liar, and that I was advertising for a friend.

If you get both tunes, no matter what, you're going to be called "one-sided", or something like that. For real, look at my large and long thread to see what I am talking about. I already tried this nice approach.

Pete totally sucked with me, and has not showed anything since. I consider him cowardly, and not worthy of MY business.

 

[hwm3]

[quote author=swoop1156 link=topic=55354.msg917863#msg917863 date=1156805793]
Wow, this is alot like my old thread on here.

hwm3, I DID provide an un-biased test on here.  I bought a tune from Pete as well as Bob.  Pete said I was a liar, and that I was advertising for a friend.

If you get both tunes, no matter what, you're going to be called "one-sided", or something like that.  For real, look at my large and long thread to see what I am talking about.  I already tried this nice approach.

Pete totally sucked with me, and has not showed anything since.  I consider him cowardly, and not worthy of MY business.
[/quote]

I figured someone had been down this road before.

I plan on doing back to back, stock vs. tuned Gtech runs, as well as fuel mileage comparisons and the usual driveability evaluations. This would be a perfect opportunity for Pete to prove how good his tuning really is. If he choses to be a part of this, I may even schedule a few dyno runs.

Sending a business associate over to try and convince us isn't the way to go. He has nothing to gain by giving a true, real world evaluation. Trying to convince us that someone honestly mistaked his car for a Mustang, or that a tune magically changes this engine into a match for the latest, 3.5L offerings from Nissan and Toyota are rediculous. I don't think anyone's buying that. If it were true, the car would become a mid-14 sec car, and I seriously doubt that's gonna happen.

 

[swoop1156]

Exactly. The fact that I had two seperate tuners in my hand, one from Pete, one from Jusnes -- I did exactly what you are proposing. I did not do dyno runs.

Still, I stand by my offer to Pete: Send me an updated tune and I will do another compairison. I will post again, HONEST results. Pete has a ahrd time believing that I am honest about my findings, since Bob Jusnes and I were friends before this whole tuner-war happened.

Email it to me, Pete...let's see if your tune is as big as your ego and mouth.

 

[MJH/SMS]

I do believe it sad when one cannot post on a forum to provide honest information without being rediculed and accused of alterior motives.Not once did I even say that the Bamachips tune was worse or better. I just offered my personal opinion on the tune of my personal car.If I was biased I would tell you to pick one over the other.All I wanted to state was that I was happy with my decision. obviously the Bamachip guys are happy with theirs.And im dissapointed that this is the thanks I get for wanting to say that.I say that the car sounds meaner and im called a liar. I say that it is now a match for a 240hp accord or 250hp altima(referring to the automatic versions) and you would think that would be a logical assumption given that my car gained 20whp.That puts the engine right around the 250 crank hp mark.But logic is thrown out of the window and I am once again called a liar.

Then there is name calling and accusing and the same people doing this ask for a free tune to compare? Thats assanine.There are certain ways to go about business and getting what you want. This is not it. I understand that from now on I will keep all developments and findings to myself as they are unappreciated.

 

[hwm3]

[quote author=MJH/SMS link=topic=55354.msg918213#msg918213 date=1156815873]
I do believe it sad when one cannot post on a forum to provide honest information without being rediculed and accused of alterior motives.Not once did I even say that the Bamachips tune was worse or better. I just offered my personal opinion on the tune of my personal car.If I was biased I would tell you to pick one over the other.All I wanted to state was that I was happy with my decision. obviously the Bamachip guys are happy with theirs.And im dissapointed that this is the thanks I get for wanting to say that.I say that the car sounds meaner and im called a liar. I say that it is now a match for a 240hp accord or 250hp altima(referring to the automatic versions) and you would think that would be a logical assumption given that my car gained 20whp.That puts the engine right around the 250 crank hp mark.But logic is thrown out of the window and I am once again called a liar.[/quote]

You are in the automotive marketing and consulting business. This alone makes your opinion hold very little weight as it would be bad business practice to speak negatively of his product.

Your car gained 20whp at 600RPM more than the stock tune was allowed to rev. You can't seriously expect us to take this as an apples to apples comparison.

You both say you have dyno charts/graphs, but yet we haven't seen them posted. POST THE GRAPHS.

Pete says the stock car shifts at 5800RPM, when in reality it shifts at 6300RPM. When I posted evidence of this, he tried to backtrack saying it initiates the shift at 5800RPM, and starts pulling timing. This is also incorrect as shown in the datalog I posted. Things just don't add up.

[quote author=MJH/SMS link=topic=55354.msg918213#msg918213 date=1156815873]
Then there is name calling and accusing and the same people doing this ask for a free tune to compare? Thats assanine.There are certain ways to go about business and getting what you want. This is not it. I understand that from now on I will keep all developments and findings to myself as they are unappreciated.
[/quote]

Name calling? Where do you find name calling?

There ARE certain ways to go about business, and you obviously don't know much about them. I'm not connected in any way to any business. My actions don't reflect on anyone other than myself. You on the other hand, have come here with a VERY unprofessional attitude, and that DOES reflect on the business you are representing. Is threatening to withhold future developments and findings from others considered professional to you? Your a marketing and consulting firm, what developments and findings have you contributed so far?

The offer is there for Pete to participate in, or not. That's Pete's decision. I, unlike you, am not in any way affiliated with, or do any sort of business with, either Bamachips or Fordchip. I am simply making an offer to give my opinions of ONE tune that he offers. I have nothing to gain whether he choses to participate or not. My only reason to even make the offer is to try and help, Bamachips, Fordchip, and the Fusion owners in general.

 

[mercerb]

OK, at this point I am going to step in. I am NOT a car expert, nor do I have the means to a Dyno tester. But what I do have are my personnel feelings. From what I see Both have a money back guaranty so the only way that I can see this coming to an end for me and the other readers that are going “what the hell are they talking about” is to load both tunes. Drive each tune and go with the one that feels best to me. Now for a guy like me that probably won’t feel the difference between the two, and just think WOW this car drives a lot better, I feel it comes down to customer service. I have bought a tune; I have not yet received it, but am looking forward to it. I will not talk bad about anyone because no one has done me wrong. On that note I have only worked with one of them so far, and have received top service. So what I am trying to get at here is for all of you regular guys out there that just want to put a little more step into your car, just pick one, if it dose not feel right send it back and try the other guy. From what I have read I feel I will be more than happy with what I get, and have gotten GREAT SERVICE, I also bought springs from them and know that I could have gotten a little better of a price (on the springs) but went with then due to the service I got.

 

[sternyy]

[quote author=mercerb link=topic=55354.msg918563#msg918563 date=1156825241]
OK, at this point I am going to step in. I am NOT a car expert, nor do I have the means to a Dyno tester. But what I do have are my personnel feelings. From what I see Both have a money back guaranty so the only way that I can see this coming to an end for me and the other readers that are going “what the hell are they talking about” is to load both tunes. Drive each tune and go with the one that feels best to me. Now for a guy like me that probably won’t feel the difference between the two, and just think WOW this car drives a lot better, I feel it comes down to customer service. I have bought a tune; I have not yet received it, but am looking forward to it. I will not talk bad about anyone because no one has done me wrong. On that note I have only worked with one of them so far, and have received top service. So what I am trying to get at here is for all of you regular guys out there that just want to put a little more step into your car, just pick one, if it dose not feel right send it back and try the other guy. From what I have read I feel I will be more than happy with what I get, and have gotten GREAT SERVICE, I also bought springs from them and know that I could have gotten a little better of a price (on the springs) but went with then due to the service I got.
[/quote]

I am not a car expert so... i concur... but i do know who i am trying first

 

[pete]

[quote author=hwm3 link=topic=55354.msg917054#msg917054 date=1156787557]It was nice of Pete to send you here to defend him, but I think you still miss the point. The dyno numbers as provided by Pete mean nothing. We need the full charts to make any kind of comparison. Simply taking the word of someone that is attempting to sell us the tuning isn't good enough for me.

Here's what I'm willing to do if Pete is interested. Bamachips has offered to send me an 87 octane performance tune to try out. If Pete would like to do the same, I'm willing to do an independant, unbiased comparison of the two.
[/quote]

So in saying that. Where's the numbers from Bob or Bamachips? Are you going to buy from them without numbers?

No thanks. I'll let the dyno do the talking. Yes, we will re-run the curves both to 6500.

 

[pete]

[quote author=swoop1156 link=topic=55354.msg916865#msg916865 date=1156782340]
Also, if he is all about his money-back gurantee and making customers happy -- why do you suppose that he hasn't offered my his updated tune, if I am so unhappy with the initial tune?  I feel that he has blackballed me, because I posted HONESTLY about his tune and service that I, personally, received.

Pete, when you read this, email me your new tune.  I will load it up and see what becomes of it.  I have a dyno here in the Pensacola area that I am itching to get on.  I will run yours, his and Ford's.
[/quote]

Mail the XCal2 back unlocked and I will refund your money.

 

[Boggus]

I have both .... but I drive a Five Hundred.  I have had excellent communication and "quality" service from both companies.

 

[pete]

[quote author=hwm3 link=topic=55354.msg917054#msg917054 date=1156787557]
He didn't even know the shift points of the car, and made claims of the stock tune that simply aren't true.
[/quote]

The stock commanded WOT shift points are 5800. Nobody can lie about that...its in the stock file. Have somebody show you since you prob wouldn't believe a screen shot. While you are at it... have them show you the Knock Sensor timing tables. Can't lie about the sensor allowing timing to be added...its right there in the file.

You really need to learn to read the datalog corrrectly. Spark clearly is reduced prior to and during the shift. Is it a flat curve down? No. Spark in these is dynamic and can have 10 different inputs at any time. Which means they may increase only to be subtracted back down.

I think if you stop trying to pick everything I say apart...you may learn something.

 

[hwm3]

[quote author=pete link=topic=55354.msg919287#msg919287 date=1156870934]
So in saying that. Where's the numbers from Bob or Bamachips? Are you going to buy from them without numbers?[/quote]

The numbers from Bamachips will be posted in another thread in just a few minutes. After talking to Bob at length, he agreed to send me a tune to try, and give him my impressions.

Would I have bought from Bama without ever seeing numbers? Absolutely. They seem to treat their customers, and potential customers, very well. He has answered any questions that I had to my satisfaction, and treated me in a much more business-like manner than you have.

[quote author=pete link=topic=55354.msg919287#msg919287 date=1156870934]
No thanks. I'll let the dyno do the talking. Yes, we will re-run the curves both to 6500.
[/quote]

If the original test wasn't flawed, why re-run it? Post the graphs/charts so we can see what is really going on. Both you and Troy say you have them, so go ahead and post them.