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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=26453

Sales figures for the Fusion not looking so good...9,347 July 2007 vs 13,612 July 2006.

Ford sales down 19% total vs 2006, down 17% overall retail.

Maybe this is the reason? You have to read this!
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/07/whats-in-a-bran.html

Toyota can kiss my arse!

Are consumers really "Sheeple" insomuch that a T on the hood would and could create that much more of a desire for a product? So a Toyota Fusion might sell 30k units per month? WTF?
 

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Last year at this time ford was offering all sorts of incentives on the leftover 06's.

I agree... :fu: Toyota
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Still, even without incentives you would think that Ford's Nascar nameplate, the car that maintains an initial quality rating well ABOVE the Camry, the very same car that looks killer standing still next to the 4 door imports would at least see numbers in the mid-teens for sales. Gawd, I am beginning to HATE the 40,000 unit-per-month Camry! I rented one - THEY ARE SOOOOOO BORING! Oh, but they are a Toyota so they're blessed by the Gods.



[quote author=Chris06Fusion link=topic=84994.msg1604849#msg1604849 date=1186010053]
Last year at this time ford was offering all sorts of incentives on the leftover 06's.

I agree... :fu:Toyota
[/quote]
 

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I have brought this up before.... A guy I work with is all about Camry. He seems to think its some sort of "status" car. I have tried to talk sense into him, but its pointless. I will just let him buy it, and complain later
 

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[quote author=Metallicat link=topic=84994.msg1604870#msg1604870 date=1186010777]
Still, even without you would think that Ford's Nascar nameplate,
[/quote]
We're not exactly making big news on the track with the Fusion. The sad part is-its not the car its the teams. Poor testing, poor team alignment is killing Ford in the manufacturers run. But still much better than the piss poor Camry! If the Fusion had won 10 races by now it may be a little bit different. Its the whole marketing package imo. Ford racing sux right now and the commercials and advertising for the Fusion are a joke. Ford's gotta start thinking big picture. :dhl:

BTW-Toyota-Honda- :fu:
 

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Status car? A lexus or lincoln kinda maybe but certainly not a toyota. To me a status car is a mercedes or a high end sports car (porsche, ferrari etc)
 

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I'm sure I'm setting myself up for some scorn with this post. Obviously the Camry (and all Toyotas) aren't real popular around here. I think the Camry's a nice car- but it probably wouldn't be a choice for me either. However, I never hear much talk about the Accord, which IMO is the gold standard for midsize/family four doors (I've owned 4 since I was 16). I've also owned 3 Maxima's- and while they've gotten a lot more expensive (and porkier), they were always fast and fun to drive.

To me the Accord, while not the flashiest car, has the best overall engine, driving dynamics, reliability and their resale value is significantly greater than anything else. I checked autotrader and 2004 Accord 4Cyl are going for $19k+ in my area. My V6 Fusion that stickered for almost $25k that now has 21k miles is worth maybe $18k retail. As I understand it, Honda has never offered a rebate for any of there cars- that obviously helps with the resale (not to mention they don't do a lot of fleet sales).
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Obviously the demand for the Fusion isn't so great with only around 10k sales per month nationwide. Plus the Fusion doesn't have the estabished nameplate of the Accord. I don't blame people for buying Accords or even Camrys. I once believed that the Fusion would be the one car to give import buyers a serious alternative to the H and T brands but it seems like not too many people are taking "The Fusion Challenge" that seriously. I am just rather shocked that people are choosing the Camry over the Fusion by a 4:1 ratio.


[quote author=ming321 link=topic=84994.msg1606232#msg1606232 date=1186061963]
I'm sure I'm setting myself up for some scorn with this post. Obviously the Camry (and all Toyotas) aren't real popular around here. I think the Camry's a nice car- but it probably wouldn't be a choice for me either. However, I never hear much talk about the Accord, which IMO is the gold standard for midsize/family four doors (I've owned 4 since I was 16). I've also owned 3 Maxima's- and while they've gotten a lot more expensive (and porkier), they were always fast and fun to drive.

To me the Accord, while not the flashiest car, has the best overall engine, driving dynamics, reliability and their resale value is significantly greater than anything else. I checked autotrader and 2004 Accord 4Cyl are going for $19k+ in my area. My V6 Fusion that stickered for almost $25k that now has 21k miles is worth maybe $18k retail. As I understand it, Honda has never offered a rebate for any of there cars- that obviously helps with the resale (not to mention they don't do a lot of fleet sales).
[/quote]
 

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[quote author=ming321 link=topic=84994.msg1606232#msg1606232 date=1186061963]
(I've owned 4 since I was 16). I've also owned 3 Maxima's- and while they've gotten a lot more expensive (and porkier), they were always fast and fun to drive.

To me the Accord, while not the flashiest car, has the best overall engine, driving dynamics, reliability and their resale value is significantly greater than anything else.
[/quote]
Man is a creature of habit. If you get good service out of something--a tv, stereo, jeans--whatever--you are likely to buy that brand again. Such is the case for Honda and Yota. Good products and word of mouth bring sales. The last Ford I owned was in 88. It was a POS Taurus that stayed in the shop w/trans trouble. 20 years passed before I bought another Ford---why?--because the one i did buy was a POS! and I remembered that when it came time to sign the dotted line. Respect is not given--its earned. Ford has to continue to build quality products. Then and only then will the respect come.
 

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[quote author=HALOREALM link=topic=84994.msg1606389#msg1606389 date=1186065651]
Man is a creature of habit. If you get good service out of something--a tv, stereo, jeans--whatever--you are likely to buy that brand again. Such is the case for Honda and Yota. Good products and word of mouth bring sales. The last Ford I owned was in 88. It was a POS Taurus that stayed in the shop w/trans trouble. 20 years passed before I bought another Ford---why?--because the one i did buy was a POS! and I remembered that when it came time to sign the dotted line. Respect is not given--its earned. Ford has to continue to build quality products. Then and only then will the respect come.
[/quote]

Right on :)

I'm really interested to see what the 2nd generation Fusion will be like. That'll be the real indicator on how Ford's going to do.
 

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Good comments from you all. One other thing that crossed my mind was that especially with Honda's, their reputation is great for all their products. Anyone whose owned a base model Civic has experienced the same build quality and reliability as those that pay $30k for a loaded Accord or $40k for a loaded Odyssey. Now Ford certainly makes a nice truck, but with all the Explorer issues in the past and the last gen Taurus, outdated Focus, lousy minivan- the average persons opinion of Ford's product line isn't nearly as positive as with Honda. I think the same can be said of GM and Chrysler- they have one or two shining stars, and most everything else is at best average- but in most cases below average.
 

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I have a major problem with the closing of the "Brand Name" article linked in the first post of this thread. It is a common theme among those who work for the Big 3 or root for them incessantly - the idea that quality issues for the Big 3 are 20-30 years ago and that the gap between the domestics and imports has closed. This simply isn't the case.

As recently as the 2003 Taurus I owned, Ford has been at least a decade behind Toyota. I test drove a Camry in 2003 and could not believe the differences between it and the Ford...especially the fact that the I4 in the Toyota was quicker than the V6 in the Taurus. After a year of driving that clunky transmission I got tired of being sea sick and had to trade it in...to find out the residual was below 50% after ONE YEAR!

Every vehicle I've ever owned has been a domestic (yes, I do live in Detroit and have family that work for the Big 3) but I don't know how much longer this will last. Even my current Fusion has issues that the dealer can't resolve (after 4 trips) and make the car much less satisfying than it would otherwise be. I really want to love my Fusion but if Ford can't make a seat that doesn't squeak like an old wooden rocking chair then how good can the rest of the car be? Furthermore, why can't the dealer fix it after 4 trips to the shop (one with a TSB for this exact problem)???

I have a very strong inclination to buy domestic and even I am getting to the breaking point. Why should the average American who doesn't have ties to Detroit or the Big 3 keep buying vehicles that are sub-par? The Big 3 had better stop touting the idea that they are "closing the gap" and start producing vehicles that are BETTER than the Japanese (and now Korean) competition or they simply don't deserve the business of most Americans. Saying "we're almost as good...give us a try" isn't going to cut it after decades of miserable vehicles. It is time for the Big 3 to put up or shut up and that means producing vehicles that are unquestionably better than their competition.

I have yet to see such a mass-market vehicle from the Big 3.
 

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No question about it-its put up or shut up for all the big 3. So the Fusion did a little better in a road and track test---well whooopity shit! The track record I'm looking for is how many repair receipts are in my glovebox after 5 or 7 years.
 

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I'll have to say that this is my last Big 3 car for awhile. My next car may be built in America, but it will most likely be a Nissan/Infiniti or BMW.

I hear your pain fusionowner. I took mine in for the pop noise in the dash TSB and their "fix" seemed to only make it worse. But I'd rather live with that constant popping than give them another shot at screwing something up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Not a bad summary at all!

[quote author=ming321 link=topic=84994.msg1606481#msg1606481 date=1186067657]
Good comments from you all. One other thing that crossed my mind was that especially with Honda's, their reputation is great for all their products. Anyone whose owned a base model Civic has experienced the same build quality and reliability as those that pay $30k for a loaded Accord or $40k for a loaded Odyssey. Now Ford certainly makes a nice truck, but with all the Explorer issues in the past and the last gen Taurus, outdated Focus, lousy minivan- the average persons opinion of Ford's product line isn't nearly as positive as with Honda. I think the same can be said of GM and Chrysler- they have one or two shining stars, and most everything else is at best average- but in most cases below average.
[/quote]
 
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Well one really big problem Ford has put them in, is this whole "Have you taken the Ford Challenge?", this phrase usually is put with the Fusion.


Last time I checked, Fusion won by a landslide, what challenge?



Fords new motto should be; Ford, buy it, or bitch that you didn't.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I guess I've never been bitten by a domestic product so I don't have the negative experiences of some of the people here.

But you all make some good counterpoints.

Still thinking about that 4:1 ratio!
 

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I don't see the problem with domestics either. I've never had a problem and I grew up driving to school in a Chevy or a Ford. My family never owned anything different. My dad traded in a Suburban back in 1980 for a brand new 1981 Monte Carlo and he owned that car for 14 years. He loved that car and he took great care of it. He finally decided to let it go in 1995 for a 95 Ford T-Bird which was a lease vehicle with low mileage. He owned that car for 10 years before letting it go. Now he owns an 04 Taurus which now has 200K on the odometer.

I guess the point I'm making is, there's a direct correlation between taking care of your vehicle and complaining about "damn domestics". My family never had these "horrible" experiences that you guys are talking about.

I'm a technical training instructor and I had a student that was complaining because he lost his job to an overseas outfit. At the end of the day, he drove home in a Japanese import. Kind of ironic.

My opinions...don't shoot me. :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Well, I'm kinda in the same boat.

Growing up our family had a 1983 TBird for 10 years, a 1986 Ranger for 12 years, and my little Tempo got me through HS and college even though I beat the crap out of that thing. My 1997 F150 has 215,000 miles on the odometer, burns no oil, and has no problems to speak of and has very little surface rust considering that it is my winter "salted road" vehicle. I've seen 10 year old Toyota trucks with the front suspension subframe completely gone due to rust.

I do know for a fact that some Ford vehicles did have their share of problems and I can understand not wanting to purchase another vehicle of the same make.

But also...

I know that the previous gen 3.0L V6 Toyota engine had major problems with sludge build-up but you don't seem to hear about that too much. Or the fact that most of the imports had inflated their hp figures before the new and improved rating system came out. The domestics almost all saw a hp increase with the new rating system. The old Camry V6 made 190hp on premium fuel but it somehow was never the "turd" that you would assume the 221hp Duratec 30 to be in the Fusion based upon most of the magazine reports.

Funny story, last month my cousin and his wife and kids were driving from Phoenix to the Grand Canyon in a new Altima rental unit and guess what! The air filter caught on fire and the entire car burned down on the side of the road 15 miles into their trip. I have the pics from his camera phone too! Yeah, I guess there is a recall on that.

I think that overall the imports aren't really as good as people think, and the domestics aren't nearly as bad as some people believe they are.





[quote author=mrc link=topic=84994.msg1607836#msg1607836 date=1186095771]
I don't see the problem with domestics either. I've never had a problem and I grew up driving to school in a Chevy or a Ford. My family never owned anything different. My dad traded in a Suburban back in 1980 for a brand new 1981 Monte Carlo and he owned that car for 14 years. He loved that car and he took great care of it. He finally decided to let it go in 1995 for a 95 Ford T-Bird which was a lease vehicle with low mileage. He owned that car for 10 years before letting it go. Now he owns an 04 Taurus which now has 200K on the odometer.

I guess the point I'm making is, there's a direct correlation between taking care of your vehicle and complaining about "damn domestics". My family never had these "horrible" experiences that you guys are talking about.

I'm a technical training instructor and I had a student that was complaining because he lost his job to an overseas outfit. At the end of the day, he drove home in a Japanese import. Kind of ironic.

My opinions...don't shoot me. :lol:
[/quote]
 

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It's kind of like the girl in high school that everybody said "put out" when she really didn't. Whether she did or not wasn't really the issue because her reputation was already ruined. Same factor here--whether domestics were really the dog whores people thought they were or not--they had the reputation for it and reputations are hard to live down because the general public won't let it die.
 
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