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Is there an intake silencer delete on the 3.0 V6?

I know it probably makes the car run more lean, but is it really that big of a deal?
 

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I am sure one of the v6 guys will chime in shortly. Pretty sure there is something simalar, and running lean is always a big deal.
 

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There are a brazillion threads on this topic.
 

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The car will compensate for the extra air pulled in by this mod. Deleting the silencer (or removing the air horn) isn't like getting a new intake manifold with a high-flow intake system. It makes the car sound more aggressive when accelerating, and adds a slight bit more air. You're still limited by a small surface-area filter in a little box.
 

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A total waste of time...... 8)
 

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Not if you like the more aggressive "growl" 8)
 

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[quote author=seawolf link=topic=74318.msg1327104#msg1327104 date=1176301829]
Not if you like the more aggressive "growl" 8)
[/quote]

yep that is why i did it. here is a video i had a friend shoot when i ran the fusion around the go-track track before my clubs autocross. you can hear the intake very well now. and mine is just a 4 banger!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cOY2UBP0FE
 

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I've had mine removed for quite some time now; even taken it to the dealer with it off a few times and they've never said a word about it.

But what is the talk about it running lean? The small increase in air flow is going to make the car run leaner? Isn't that the reason why we had a MAF? Maybe I could see it causing a problem with the MAF was malfunctioning, but that would throw an instantanous CEL.
 

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[quote author=seawolf link=topic=74318.msg1327104#msg1327104 date=1176301829]
Not if you like the more aggressive "growl" 8)
[/quote]

The V-6 with a Magnaflow is plenny "growl" 8)
 

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I would agree, but taking off the air horn is much cheaper than buying the magnaflow exhaust, and is easily reversible.

No the car will not run more lean, it will learn the new airflow patterns and adjust itself accordingly. That is the MAFs job, yes, to meter the air and report it's findings. The ECU adds an appropriate proportional amount of fuel. You will not "max out" the MAF in an NA configuration without major expensive mods: like new race-only cams with higher flow heads, an unrestrictive intake manifold, 70+mm throttle body to suck in air, and a large cone filter. Even then, it may not max out.
Needless to say, you'll be fine.
 

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I've only ever seen/heard one magnaflow up close and didn't care for it much myself and for the extra money when I already have the chrome exhausts I won't do it. I might try this mod though for the improved sound and breathing might.
 

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[quote author=UnderEstimated link=topic=74318.msg1327834#msg1327834 date=1176317619]
I've had mine removed for quite some time now; even taken it to the dealer with it off a few times and they've never said a word about it.

But what is the talk about it running lean? The small increase in air flow is going to make the car run leaner? Isn't that the reason why we had a MAF? Maybe I could see it causing a problem with the MAF was malfunctioning, but that would throw an instantanous CEL.
[/quote]

It seems that the factory tuning on the newer Fords has the engine running a little on the lean side. It's not lean all the time, but only when the engine is operating in "open loop" at WOT. Any change made to the intake setup CAN cause the engine to run even more lean and potentially cause a problem. It will probably be fine, but why take the chance when there are no gains other than increased sound?

Also, the CEL will NOT let you know of a lean condition that occurs when the engine is operating in "open loop" at WOT.
 

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hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. good post HM3.
 

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In open loop mode, the ECU ignores the O2 sensor input and determines the fuel injector pulse width by the other sensor inputs which are usually RPM, MAP or MAF, air temp, water temp, and throttle position. The MAF/ECU contains open-loop and closed-loop tables BOTH, not just one table for all. So, even though it may ignore the exhaust gas oxygen sensors, the engine is still metering the amount of airflow and adding a proportionate amount of fuel. All in all, it will keep the same AFR at WOT with a bigger intake vs stock, all else being equal. When you go modifying the MAF, like putting the stock meter in a larger housing, you affect the AFR at all ranges in both loops, which is why Bob needs time to make a good intake. His new tables have to take into account any possible combination of throttle position, temp sensors, the MAF metered air ratio, and RPMs for both closed loop and open loop, and O2 feedback for anything not Wide Open Throttle. It's a lot to modify, but done right will make a quantifiable and noticeable difference in Hp. It'll be worth the wait and it's price.

~Seawolf
 

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[quote author=seawolf link=topic=74318.msg1329904#msg1329904 date=1176385087]
In open loop mode, the ECU ignores the O2 sensor input and determines the fuel injector pulse width by the other sensor inputs which are usually RPM, MAP or MAF, air temp, water temp, and throttle position. The MAF/ECU contains open-loop and closed-loop tables BOTH, not just one table for all. So, even though it may ignore the exhaust gas oxygen sensors, the engine is still metering the amount of airflow and adding a proportionate amount of fuel. All in all, it will keep the same AFR at WOT with a bigger intake vs stock, all else being equal. When you go modifying the MAF, like putting the stock meter in a larger housing, you affect the AFR at all ranges in both loops, which is why Bob needs time to make a good intake. His new tables have to take into account any possible combination of throttle position, temp sensors, the MAF metered air ratio, and RPMs for both closed loop and open loop, and O2 feedback for anything not Wide Open Throttle. It's a lot to modify, but done right will make a quantifiable and noticeable difference in Hp. It'll be worth the wait and it's price.

~Seawolf
[/quote]

I'm sorry, but dyno testing has proven that the A/F ratio will NOT remain the same at WOT after changes have been made to the intake setup. The PCM doesn't automatically compensate as you say it does. This was true on my '05 F150, and Steeda has said it is also true of their intake.

Here's a quote from Larry about the Steeda CAI.

[quote author=larryinfl link=topic=65642.msg1124430#msg1124430 date=1167399841]
With ANY cold air kit that you install you will run more lean, this is true. Thus you should tune ANY car with a cold air kit that lets your engine breath more air.[/quote]
 

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[quote author=hwm3 link=topic=74318.msg1330292#msg1330292 date=1176394006]
[quote author=seawolf link=topic=74318.msg1329904#msg1329904 date=1176385087]
In open loop mode, the ECU ignores the O2 sensor input and determines the fuel injector pulse width by the other sensor inputs which are usually RPM, MAP or MAF, air temp, water temp, and throttle position. The MAF/ECU contains open-loop and closed-loop tables BOTH, not just one table for all. So, even though it may ignore the exhaust gas oxygen sensors, the engine is still metering the amount of airflow and adding a proportionate amount of fuel. All in all, it will keep the same AFR at WOT with a bigger intake vs stock, all else being equal. When you go modifying the MAF, like putting the stock meter in a larger housing, you affect the AFR at all ranges in both loops, which is why Bob needs time to make a good intake. His new tables have to take into account any possible combination of throttle position, temp sensors, the MAF metered air ratio, and RPMs for both closed loop and open loop, and O2 feedback for anything not Wide Open Throttle. It's a lot to modify, but done right will make a quantifiable and noticeable difference in Hp. It'll be worth the wait and it's price.

~Seawolf
[/quote]

I'm sorry, but dyno testing has proven that the A/F ratio will NOT remain the same at WOT after changes have been made to the intake setup. The PCM doesn't automatically compensate as you say it does. This was true on my '05 F150, and Steeda has said it is also true of their intake.

Here's a quote from Larry about the Steeda CAI.

[quote author=larryinfl link=topic=65642.msg1124430#msg1124430 date=1167399841]
With ANY cold air kit that you install you will run more lean, this is true. Thus you should tune ANY car with a cold air kit that lets your engine breath more air.[/quote]
[/quote]

If that's true then WTF are we even using a MAF sensor for?? Defeats the purpose. I know on my 1992 lincoln town car the computer paid a lot of attention to the MAF sensor, what you are saying is the the MAF is just a piece of crap that we pay for to mark up the price of the car. We might as well just stay with a MAP sensor like on the old chevys then. I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the point of the MAF sensor to monitor the amount or AIR coming into the engine so the computer can adjust the air fuel ratio? Because we all know that with altitude and high/low pressure systems(weather) will affect this. Even if the computer ignores the O2 sensor at WOT you still said it reads the MAF.
Alright, alright, pretending that what you say is true then it would cause more damage and lower performance of your car to put on a CAI. If taking the intake silencer delete of your car will cause it to run lean then a CAI would make it much worse.
 

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mechanicboy18, the MAF is simply a wire suspended in the intake system. The temperature of that wire changes with the amount and temperature of the air that flows over it. This temperature change varies the resistance of that wire, and that resistance is converted to a voltage signal, 0-5 volts, that is then transmitted to the PCM. The PCM uses this signal, along with many other inputs, to control the A/F ratio of the engine. Any change in airflow over the MAF can/will alter the voltage output to the PCM, even if the amount of air is the same, but the FLOW is slightly different. This is why companies like Steeda and Jusnes must dyno tune their intakes to ensure that they maintain a safe A/F ratio.

The stock tuning is calibrated for the stock intake setup. Any changes that are made can upset the A/F ratio. I have tested this personally on my '05 F150 with a wideband A/F ratio monitor. The truck was more lean with an aftermarket CAI than with the stock intake structure in place. This is a concern because it seems that the newer Ford vehicles run a bit on the lean side totally stock, so any more lean and it could be potentially damaging to the engine.
 

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So basically the PCM "ignors" the oxygen sensor at WOT because of the inaccurate measurement and defaults to pre-programmed tables with the air-horn / stock air tube installed. So, from what I understand so far, this is where the damage would be done if the air flow improved without the proper tune??????
 

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My point is simple:

1> Removing the air horn is not getting a cold-air intake. They are two different animals. You are limited by the cross-section of the stock air filter in both cases!

2> Open loop mode only ignores the O2 sensor. The engine still "reads" the other sensors available to it.

3> The ECU contains air/fuel and spark maps based on the MEASURED MAF voltage, whatever that may be. The MAF is always metering air, the system simple ignores it's checksum when engaged in WOT. Remember, the O2 sensor is as much an emissions control device as it is an engine monitor.

4> Steeda says a reflash of the stock ECU is not necessary when using their intake. If the stock maps are good enough to compensate for a high-flow short-ram intake with a high cross-section air filter, then there is more than enough room to remove the air horn and use a K&N panel filter in the stock location.

5> I'll admit that the AFR may change *slightly*, but the car will never lean to the point of detonation. The only way that can happen is if the fuel injector duty cycle becomes 100% and the amount of air continues to rise. Without Forced-Induction or serious cylinder head mods, that's impossible.

If you don't believe me, why not ask Bob? Or click the links below to learn more about MAF and Ford's Adaptive Control circuitry.

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2005/10/MassAirConversion/index.php
Mass air flow (MAF) systems evolved later and are highly adaptable because they directly measure the volume of air going into the engine.
http://fordfuelinjection.com/files/EECIV_Inner_Workings.pdf
...Adaptive control circuit will try to compensate for the change by writing correction multipliers...can vary +/- 12.5% or 25% overall...

~Seawolf
 
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