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Okay, I haven't been keeping up with all the posts but I find little to get excited about this whole Umnitza thing. What exactly is the issue here? Umnitza claims that they have super-secret-improvements that makes their SRI better than the identical SRI sold by another retailer?
I think Umnitza's spokesperson could do better at controlling his urge to hit the reply button but other than that, what's the problem?
I think Umnitza's spokesperson could do better at controlling his urge to hit the reply button but other than that, what's the problem?
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Umm, before I answer your questions, please answer these so I can better understand what the "casual member" believes about this. If you really don't know - just give your best hunch.
1) What features differentiate the intake offered by Umnitza from the intake that others sell?
2) What type of operation do you feel that Umnitza runs. For example, describe what job functions that you feel his organization does with respect to R&D, Service, Inventory, etc. Also, let me know how many people that you believe work for Umnitza.
1) What features differentiate the intake offered by Umnitza from the intake that others sell?
2) What type of operation do you feel that Umnitza runs. For example, describe what job functions that you feel his organization does with respect to R&D, Service, Inventory, etc. Also, let me know how many people that you believe work for Umnitza.
1) I think Umnitza claims there are super-secret benefits to their intake that makes it better than the "same" intake sold by others. I think beyond some minor customization, such as maybe grinding some corners/edges here and there, maybe some extra claims, screws, etc, there's little that Umnitza can do to really customize their stuff.
2) I think Umnitza is a small time operation, otherwise he wouldn't have a lot of time answering posts in internet forums. It looks like a small time reseller that re-badges and resells generic stuff. They may have anywhere between 1 to 5 people. I'd be really surprised if there's more people than that.
The thing is though, people BS about their business all the time. It's pointless to hold them to the fire if it doesn't really make that much of a difference. Small guys will always make themselves out to be larger, more capable, etc. Umnitza is obviously not *that* involved with the design and production of this SRI, because otherwise he would know if the intake is an overlay or not. Heck, even someone who knew the basics of carbon fiber construction would be able to tell.
So I guess my question is what do we get out of proving or disproving anything that Umnitza says? In my mind, Umnitza is too small and too insignificant to worry over.
2) I think Umnitza is a small time operation, otherwise he wouldn't have a lot of time answering posts in internet forums. It looks like a small time reseller that re-badges and resells generic stuff. They may have anywhere between 1 to 5 people. I'd be really surprised if there's more people than that.
The thing is though, people BS about their business all the time. It's pointless to hold them to the fire if it doesn't really make that much of a difference. Small guys will always make themselves out to be larger, more capable, etc. Umnitza is obviously not *that* involved with the design and production of this SRI, because otherwise he would know if the intake is an overlay or not. Heck, even someone who knew the basics of carbon fiber construction would be able to tell.
So I guess my question is what do we get out of proving or disproving anything that Umnitza says? In my mind, Umnitza is too small and too insignificant to worry over.
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^^^ Ah, actually, you're pretty accurate on what is going on 
The problem is that there are a lot of members out there who believe that:
Umnitza has a slew of design engineers here and abrod that helped to produce the "Umnitza SRI." Xtec has been accused of stealing (yeah, as in illegally taking what is not his) the technological advancements suggested through Umnitza's work. We had a whole bunch of bad threads between the vendors (and M3F members) that got way out of control. Umnitza did actually make some changes to units sold waaaaaaaay back in the day to the original SRI that shipped (it had non-fitting mounting hardware), but that problem was quickly remedied by Simota and there was no product differentiation. My favorite is that since Umnitza's SRI has a sticker on it - it is a more improved version from what Xtec sells :lol:
But, the biggest issue is that Umnitza has advertised for the longest time that his SRI was superior (he said his was all carbon fiber as well as a better option from what Xtec sold) and he was the driving force in poineering these developments for us Mazda3 owners. MikeMan was pretty pissed off at the general IMPOSSIBILITY for anyone casually using M3F to get a straight answer. Obviously, I agree that there is a degree of caveat emptor and all that when reading advertisements. I don't want to "protect" members so much as just stop the horrible speculation, vendor-bias, and fanboy-flamewars that pop up.
I think due to Umnitza's great deal of puffery and marketing efforts, he creates perceptions and general forum sentiment that discourages normal buyers from having trust in what they're buying. Yeah, he supports his product - yeah people get their products. But, most members are seriously confused, or their beliefs are horribly off base. The misleading and just general "weird" tactics that Umnitza does are creating big problems when we have to lock threads and ban members who get upset over what goes on.
Soooooo, the short answer to your question.... What do we get out of proving or disproving what Umnitza says? The forum becomes a less shitty place since the forum members can actually have conversations with retailers rather than fanboy wars about who is paying off experimentors, stealing blueprints, or lying about something being Chinese versus Japanese. Lately, Umnitza has done some things that make me rue the day that Mz6ZoomZoom allowed him to become a sponsor.
The problem is that there are a lot of members out there who believe that:
Umnitza has a slew of design engineers here and abrod that helped to produce the "Umnitza SRI." Xtec has been accused of stealing (yeah, as in illegally taking what is not his) the technological advancements suggested through Umnitza's work. We had a whole bunch of bad threads between the vendors (and M3F members) that got way out of control. Umnitza did actually make some changes to units sold waaaaaaaay back in the day to the original SRI that shipped (it had non-fitting mounting hardware), but that problem was quickly remedied by Simota and there was no product differentiation. My favorite is that since Umnitza's SRI has a sticker on it - it is a more improved version from what Xtec sells :lol:
But, the biggest issue is that Umnitza has advertised for the longest time that his SRI was superior (he said his was all carbon fiber as well as a better option from what Xtec sold) and he was the driving force in poineering these developments for us Mazda3 owners. MikeMan was pretty pissed off at the general IMPOSSIBILITY for anyone casually using M3F to get a straight answer. Obviously, I agree that there is a degree of caveat emptor and all that when reading advertisements. I don't want to "protect" members so much as just stop the horrible speculation, vendor-bias, and fanboy-flamewars that pop up.
I think due to Umnitza's great deal of puffery and marketing efforts, he creates perceptions and general forum sentiment that discourages normal buyers from having trust in what they're buying. Yeah, he supports his product - yeah people get their products. But, most members are seriously confused, or their beliefs are horribly off base. The misleading and just general "weird" tactics that Umnitza does are creating big problems when we have to lock threads and ban members who get upset over what goes on.
Soooooo, the short answer to your question.... What do we get out of proving or disproving what Umnitza says? The forum becomes a less shitty place since the forum members can actually have conversations with retailers rather than fanboy wars about who is paying off experimentors, stealing blueprints, or lying about something being Chinese versus Japanese. Lately, Umnitza has done some things that make me rue the day that Mz6ZoomZoom allowed him to become a sponsor.
well i have been to the umnitza shop and it is a very small operation. their building is no bigger than a 3 car garage and matt was the only one there the whole time i was there (better part of the day doing dyno testing on the intake). he says there are employes that do DDE installs but thats all it sounded like the others did.
[quote author=holeydonut link=topic=27649.msg378663#msg378663 date=1124676846]
My favorite is that since Umnitza's SRI has a sticker on it - it is a more improved version from what Xtec sells :lol:[/quote]
there is no stickers that are on the intake, one is included in the box though. the first test intake had a sticker on it however.
i think that there is a lot of confusion about the CF on the intake. umnitza originally said that the intake was 100% CF but after seeing the first photos i could tell otherwise. and i believe that he said that the original design was supposed to be full CF but ended up being glass overlay. i dont think many people saw the pictures or read that huge original topic on the intake to get all the info on the intake.
i also dealt with the original test intake first hand on my car and had a talk with brandon (RaGe) who was the original test fitter. the first one didn't fit that great and the MAF didn't sit correctly in the housing, to my knowledge umnitza relayed the info on the test to somiota (sp) and they made changes accordingly. other than that i dont believe that they do any more modifications to the intake.
hope that helps you guys with somthing.
[quote author=holeydonut link=topic=27649.msg378663#msg378663 date=1124676846]
My favorite is that since Umnitza's SRI has a sticker on it - it is a more improved version from what Xtec sells :lol:[/quote]
there is no stickers that are on the intake, one is included in the box though. the first test intake had a sticker on it however.
i think that there is a lot of confusion about the CF on the intake. umnitza originally said that the intake was 100% CF but after seeing the first photos i could tell otherwise. and i believe that he said that the original design was supposed to be full CF but ended up being glass overlay. i dont think many people saw the pictures or read that huge original topic on the intake to get all the info on the intake.
i also dealt with the original test intake first hand on my car and had a talk with brandon (RaGe) who was the original test fitter. the first one didn't fit that great and the MAF didn't sit correctly in the housing, to my knowledge umnitza relayed the info on the test to somiota (sp) and they made changes accordingly. other than that i dont believe that they do any more modifications to the intake.
hope that helps you guys with somthing.
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^^^ Yeah - what you say is about on par with what I've gleaned through hours of frustratingly reading dozens of threads (there are quite a few locked and deleted ones that you can't access). Even on TorontoMazda3 and other boards, the stuff just spreads and the misconceptions grow grander and grander. I think one user (not here) actually thought the Umnitza SRI was 100% real carbon fiber while the Xtec one was fake (a knockoff).
I wonder what Autoexe has to say about this. :lol:
I wonder what Autoexe has to say about this. :lol:
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Just to clarify - (since leelee originally asked about umnitza - my focus was on umnitza alone in the reply). Xtec has its own band of issues due to users confused about a lot of things as well. Most notably was a slew of threads that aimed to show how xtec was better than prolumen. Those threads didn't turn out so well given the circumstances of how information was obtained for analysis. The general tactics that xtec uses to differentiate are to say "buy from us because of this and this and this and this"..... which is fine and all - but doesn't work when everybody and their moms question the basis for your claims.
Also, there are some issues that people have had regarding how xtec has continued to deal the SRI in North America after Umnitza did initial work to fit the filter and then secured a deal with the manufacturer to be the exclusive retailer in North America. Adding on the Canada-Duty problems compounds the "international border" related questions. Some members looking on feel that Xtec is doing some sneaky stuff - with taxes, legal practices, etc.
Last, how Xtec and Apexcone are related confuses a lot of people. Heck, I didn't even realize the difference of the Xtec and Apexcone HIDs until a few days ago. Last, with the HIDs - there are issues on how Xtec sells Prolumen if they are actually competitors.
So, Xtec's attempts to declare his position through "fact" often create more conflict as people tend to never beleve any "fact" spewed out on the Internet. The reuslting drama often gets threads locked. Saying something is fact will put people at a defensive if the fact really goes out to discredit an individual or prior belief; I often wish that xtec/oliver would not do these fact-sessions; but then they feel they are in a position of defending their position due to customer misconceptions. Rightfully so for those who read these statements..... pepole don't automatically believe what someone says on the Internet...... they have to want to believe - and xtec often fails in getting people to want to believe.
Soooooooo - any time a big piece of info comes down the pipe or the two vendors vie for position - bad things happen... people get confused... and m3f looks like ass. In this case, competition among vendors is causing way more problems than benefits. It's a viscious cycle of bad mouthing and m3f member trashing on each other that makes this situation very ugly and undesirable.
Also, there are some issues that people have had regarding how xtec has continued to deal the SRI in North America after Umnitza did initial work to fit the filter and then secured a deal with the manufacturer to be the exclusive retailer in North America. Adding on the Canada-Duty problems compounds the "international border" related questions. Some members looking on feel that Xtec is doing some sneaky stuff - with taxes, legal practices, etc.
Last, how Xtec and Apexcone are related confuses a lot of people. Heck, I didn't even realize the difference of the Xtec and Apexcone HIDs until a few days ago. Last, with the HIDs - there are issues on how Xtec sells Prolumen if they are actually competitors.
So, Xtec's attempts to declare his position through "fact" often create more conflict as people tend to never beleve any "fact" spewed out on the Internet. The reuslting drama often gets threads locked. Saying something is fact will put people at a defensive if the fact really goes out to discredit an individual or prior belief; I often wish that xtec/oliver would not do these fact-sessions; but then they feel they are in a position of defending their position due to customer misconceptions. Rightfully so for those who read these statements..... pepole don't automatically believe what someone says on the Internet...... they have to want to believe - and xtec often fails in getting people to want to believe.
Soooooooo - any time a big piece of info comes down the pipe or the two vendors vie for position - bad things happen... people get confused... and m3f looks like ass. In this case, competition among vendors is causing way more problems than benefits. It's a viscious cycle of bad mouthing and m3f member trashing on each other that makes this situation very ugly and undesirable.
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Haha, 3 posts in a row.
Now that MikeMan has shown that he lives close enough to xtec to visit his offce - this leads to speculation that MikeMan is just one of xtec's employees and was paid to conjure up some false statements against Umnitza. I had to lock quite a few threads on Saturday (one was deleted) due to this. In the past, this type of situation always got ugly when we let forum members "police themselves" - so I hope to be much more proactive this time.
In any event - things can only get ugly so please help the moderators out to make sure things don't get out of hand. Thanks!
Now that MikeMan has shown that he lives close enough to xtec to visit his offce - this leads to speculation that MikeMan is just one of xtec's employees and was paid to conjure up some false statements against Umnitza. I had to lock quite a few threads on Saturday (one was deleted) due to this. In the past, this type of situation always got ugly when we let forum members "police themselves" - so I hope to be much more proactive this time.
In any event - things can only get ugly so please help the moderators out to make sure things don't get out of hand. Thanks!
*disclaimer* the rest of the forum should not be aware of this post
one more thing, when i visited umnitza he mentioned how he is going to place an add in modified mag. after the add comes out and the public replies by buying more product, matt made it sound that he would be pulling out of the forums for the most part. he made it sound like its more work to back up his product than its worth. it was also kinda disappointing to hear that umnitza's mz3 parts sales were very weak and because of that they wont be offering many more, if any, products for the 3.
one more thing, when i visited umnitza he mentioned how he is going to place an add in modified mag. after the add comes out and the public replies by buying more product, matt made it sound that he would be pulling out of the forums for the most part. he made it sound like its more work to back up his product than its worth. it was also kinda disappointing to hear that umnitza's mz3 parts sales were very weak and because of that they wont be offering many more, if any, products for the 3.
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Oricle - I'm confused........ you want the rest of the forum to be aware that Umnitza may pull out of the aftermarket game - or is it too early and purely speculative? I get lost in the verbage of your post and it sounds like he had an advert in Modified Magazine helped boost sales; so why would he want to pull out of Mazda3 aftermarket?
Really, it's up to a vendor to decide what he wants to sell... I'm just glad guys like RPM, Draxas, etc all chug along and don't make so much bloody work for the mods/admins on m3f in firefighting out of control threads and requiring egos to be kept under control.
Really, it's up to a vendor to decide what he wants to sell... I'm just glad guys like RPM, Draxas, etc all chug along and don't make so much bloody work for the mods/admins on m3f in firefighting out of control threads and requiring egos to be kept under control.
I've never trusted Umnitza from the begining. He purposly acted like they had designed and manufactured the intake, when in fact he was only a distributor. That's the whole reason this Umnitza vs XE thing started, he brainwashed 80% of the forum to believe that XE "stole" the intake, and it just went downhill from there.
This forum sure does have a lot of catty bitches on it, doesn't it?
This forum sure does have a lot of catty bitches on it, doesn't it?
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Heh - you know you got problems when the moderators avoid the threads
Yeah - I'm tired of dealing with the shit; something has to happen to change the current situation so the vendors/members don't get at each other all the time.
Yeah - I'm tired of dealing with the shit; something has to happen to change the current situation so the vendors/members don't get at each other all the time.
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[quote author=holeydonut link=topic=27649.msg379840#msg379840 date=1124761579]
Heh - you know you got problems when the moderators avoid the threads
Yeah - I'm tired of dealing with the shit; something has to happen to change the current situation so the vendors/members don't get at each other all the time.
[/quote]
Well, what bothers me is that one of the sponsors is a moderator. I have nothing against M3GT, but he's a moderator so he's supposed to set an example for how the board is run and when he gets into arguments constantly with Umnitza, then yeah I stear clear. On the other hand I believe M3GT more b/c he IS a moderator and has been a member a heck of a lot longer than Umnitza.
Heh - you know you got problems when the moderators avoid the threads
Yeah - I'm tired of dealing with the shit; something has to happen to change the current situation so the vendors/members don't get at each other all the time.
[/quote]
Well, what bothers me is that one of the sponsors is a moderator. I have nothing against M3GT, but he's a moderator so he's supposed to set an example for how the board is run and when he gets into arguments constantly with Umnitza, then yeah I stear clear. On the other hand I believe M3GT more b/c he IS a moderator and has been a member a heck of a lot longer than Umnitza.
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[quote author=csweeney link=topic=27649.msg379964#msg379964 date=1124766560]
[quote author=holeydonut link=topic=27649.msg379840#msg379840 date=1124761579]
Heh - you know you got problems when the moderators avoid the threads
Yeah - I'm tired of dealing with the shit; something has to happen to change the current situation so the vendors/members don't get at each other all the time.
[/quote]
Well, what bothers me is that one of the sponsors is a moderator. I have nothing against M3GT, but he's a moderator so he's supposed to set an example for how the board is run and when he gets into arguments constantly with Umnitza, then yeah I stear clear. On the other hand I believe M3GT more b/c he IS a moderator and has been a member a heck of a lot longer than Umnitza.
[/quote]
If you haven't noticed, M3-GT doesn't do much moderating these days because I don't think he chooses to get into that shit. I'm sure he probably wants to keep the title to get the respect that he deserves.
I don't blame M3-GT as umnitza is usually the instigator of the shit. Everything was fine and dandy until he came a long. I also think umnitza has been given far to many chances.
While XE has had customer problems/order issues/general sponsor issues here, they aren't known to be forum trolls.
If we look back and count how many times umnitza has fucked up, you'll be surprised how much shit was "let slide".
[quote author=holeydonut link=topic=27649.msg379840#msg379840 date=1124761579]
Heh - you know you got problems when the moderators avoid the threads
Yeah - I'm tired of dealing with the shit; something has to happen to change the current situation so the vendors/members don't get at each other all the time.
[/quote]
Well, what bothers me is that one of the sponsors is a moderator. I have nothing against M3GT, but he's a moderator so he's supposed to set an example for how the board is run and when he gets into arguments constantly with Umnitza, then yeah I stear clear. On the other hand I believe M3GT more b/c he IS a moderator and has been a member a heck of a lot longer than Umnitza.
[/quote]
If you haven't noticed, M3-GT doesn't do much moderating these days because I don't think he chooses to get into that shit. I'm sure he probably wants to keep the title to get the respect that he deserves.
I don't blame M3-GT as umnitza is usually the instigator of the shit. Everything was fine and dandy until he came a long. I also think umnitza has been given far to many chances.
While XE has had customer problems/order issues/general sponsor issues here, they aren't known to be forum trolls.
If we look back and count how many times umnitza has fucked up, you'll be surprised how much shit was "let slide".
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