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Hello everyone long time I haven't posted, So Here I go.....When the gas pointer hits the E, how many more miles can I go before I really end up stranded? Because my understanding is I could still go for several more miles when the pointer hits the E.
 

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[quote author=douglas307 link=topic=85878.msg1628702#msg1628702 date=1186774383]
Hello everyone long time I haven't posted, So Here I go.....When the gas pointer hits the E, how many more miles can I go before I really end up stranded? Because my understanding is I could still go for several more miles when the pointer hits the E.
[/quote]

Hi douglas307. :wavey: There is no precise answer to that question. A cars gas gauge is not that accurate of a measuring device. In fact, even the "Miles to Empty" reading is not a precise measurement, so you will hit "0 Miles to Empty" and still be able drive "X" number of miles.

Also, these numbers will vary from car to car (even if they are both the same model), due to the variables in measurement, driving styles, etc. :cheers:

Essentially, once you hit "E" or "0 Miles to Empty", you are taking your chances.

One more thing to keep in mind: It is never good to run a car down to empty, as your fuel filter will now be picking up the "junk" at the bottom of the tank. Ideally, you should try to keep the gas tank at 1/4 tank or higher. Of course, sometimes we have no choice, just try to avoid running that low if you can. Check your Owners Manual regarding "Running out of fuel".

Good luck, douglas!
 

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[quote author=bbf2530 link=topic=85878.msg1628835#msg1628835 date=1186776956]
[quote author=douglas307 link=topic=85878.msg1628702#msg1628702 date=1186774383]
Hello everyone long time I haven't posted, So Here I go.....When the gas pointer hits the E, how many more miles can I go before I really end up stranded? Because my understanding is I could still go for several more miles when the pointer hits the E.
[/quote]
One more thing to keep in mind: It is never good to run a car down to empty, as your fuel filter will now be picking up the "junk" at the bottom of the tank. .... This info is all in the "Owners Manual".
[/quote]
How would running out of fuel make you pick up junk from the bottom of the tank? That makes no common or logical, or otherwise sense. The only bad thing that happens when you is you lose your fuel prime, which isn't a problem on todays cars, and if you have your fuel pump running for an extended time with no fuel then it could fry. Well, ok, I guess if they used shitty enough seals in the fuel system then the lack of fuel could cause them to dry up and crack, but that's highly unlikely.

Either way, I'm purposely going to run out of gas this weekend so I can refill with premium so i can test one of Bob's torque tunes. I'll let you know how far after "0 miles to empty" I go as I'm already at 8 miles after. Don't worry about me, I'll have 2 gallons of premium gas in the trunk(i know you shouldn't but anyways) plus I have AAA and Free Ford roadside service that will all give me free gas if need be.
 

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Hi mechanicboy. :wavey: A direct copy and paste from the Owners Manual:
Running out of fuel
Avoid running out of fuel because this situation may have an adverse effect on powertrain components.

There are many more interesting quotes. Trust me, it makes a lot of "common or logical, or otherwise sense".

Contaminants and water in your gas tank are heavier than the fuel. They settle to the bottom of the tank. When you run the tank down to empty, you concentrate those contaminants, and that is what the pick up for the fuel pump, then "picks up". More concentrated contaminants along with the fuel. Not a theory, a long validated fact.

Of course, you can do as you wish with your own car. Be interesting to see how far you go past empty.

Good luck! :cheers:
 

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As far as shit in your gas tank goes, I was also always told growing up not to buy gas when the fuel truck is filling up the service stations tanks because all the shit that's swirling around in their tank can get into your fuel system. Kinda makes sense, so I don't do it and never have. Who knows what kind of filtration/ water separators they have.
 

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[quote author=bbf2530 link=topic=85878.msg1629964#msg1629964 date=1186806783]
Hi mechanicboy. :wavey: A direct copy and paste from the Owners Manual:
Running out of fuel
Avoid running out of fuel because this situation MAY have an adverse effect on powertrain components.​

Contaminants and water in your gas tank are heavier than the fuel. They settle to the bottom of the tank. When you run the tank down to empty, you concentrate those contaminants, and that is what the pick up for the fuel pump, then "picks up". More concentrated contaminants along with the fuel. Not a theory, a long validated fact.
[/quote]

It may have an adverse effect(actually I believe this should be affect because it would be in the current state of doing the effect) because if you leave you cars ignition on while the car is still moving with your fuel pump will keep trying to pump fuel. If you leave you fuel pump on too long it can damage it, or dry up seals if they used cheap parts. Both of which I said before.

As far as contaminants being at the bottom of the tank and therefore you will only pick them up when you run out of fuel, you need to know that your fuel pickup is at the bottom of your tank and is more likely to pick these up at any time, or maybe even right after you fill up if what kevjur said here is correct then it would do the same thing every time you fill up with will mix up the contaminates in your tank and when you start your car, then those contaminates will get picked up. The only reason it would pick up more when your tank is low is because the concentration might be higher, but you'll just pick them up at a later date anyway. This idea of yours isn't a valid fact at all, someday when you have time look up how a fuel separator works, maybe that will help you understand. I may be a Diesel mechanic, but I started my mechanic life on gas engine rebuilding my first engine in 6th grade(88 350 chevy TBI).

The truth is that the average person, or American(however you want it) is an idiot when it comes to cars. Ford must write their manuals towards those people and is probably trying to spare them the jargon that would be associated with explaining how it could hurt their cars, especially if it would be saying that their cheap seals will try up.
At my shop we are having this problem of seals drying up, particularly the injector seals. Not because the drivers are running out of fuel, but because the new Low Sulfur Diesel fuel isn't providing enough lubrication and causes them to crack.

[quote author=kevjur link=topic=85878.msg1630506#msg1630506 date=1186848499]
As far as shit in your gas tank goes, I was also always told growing up not to buy gas when the fuel truck is filling up the service stations tanks because all the shit that's swirling around in their tank can get into your fuel system. Kinda makes sense, so I don't do it and never have. Who knows what kind of filtration/ water separators they have.
[/quote]

I wonder how true this is? Very interesting as those fuel tanks may have been there a long time and have god only knows what's in them. I'm sure they have some sort of separator at least in there systems to protect, if nothing else, there own pumps from rust and corrosion.

[quote author=WIFL link=topic=85878.msg1630449#msg1630449 date=1186845190]
And if I am not mistaken they will bring you fuel but, you will have to pay for the fuel they bring you!!! AAA might be different.
[/quote]

The people at my local AAA office told me 2.5 gals of gas free, but what people tell you isn't always true. I want to use premium anyway so I can try my new 91 torque tune.
 

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Hi mechanicboy. :wavey: Just several points of interest, then hopefully we can end this debate and go on with our lives. Of course, I realize that I will not sway your opinion as to whether a fuel tank should be intentionally run extremely low, or dry, on a regular basis. And you will not sway mine (at least not without some corroborating "expert" evidence). So far the only evidence presented is my quote from the Owners Manual.

As to the affect/effect grammar debate: That is a question for Fords proof readers, as again, it is a copy and paste from the Owners Manual. :lmao:

As to the contaminants in the bottom of the tank: The increased concentration of contaminants is the point, along with the damage which running out of fuel can cause. You yourself state, "The only reason it would pick up more when your tank is low is because the concentration might be higher." Well, again, that is one of the reasons we should not run our tanks low. That statement alone validates my point. You can't agree on the one hand that it will concentrate the contaminants, then say it may not matter. Just the fact that it may matter is important enough.

Very familiar with what a "fuel separator is, so no need to look it up :lmao:. Point of fact, one of the things a fuel separator is designed to do is remove contaminants from a fuel system/tank. So why do things like run your tank near dry/dry intentionally?

Oh, and just as a side note, attempting to dismiss the facts I lay out (which your statement validated) as "This idea of yours" was a rather needless attempt at condescension, but I will assume it was not intentional. So can we still be buddies and pals? :hug:

This is not 'my idea", it is just an automotive fact which you do not agree with. There is no question that running out of fuel can damage your engine. Underlining and emboldening the words may/can does not change that.

I answer questions for people to try and help them, and will certainly not tell someone it is okay to do something (i.e- run a fuel tank dry) which their Owners Manual states you should avoid doing, no matter who may decide they will do it on their own for the educational value.

Believe me, this is nothing personal, as you obviously are an intelligent individual and helpful forum member, but debating where the deck chairs should be on the Titanic is an exercise in futility. The fact remains that running out of fuel, intentionally or not, can be harmful to an automobile engine. I will not tell someone it is okay to do something they should not do.

So, we shall agree to disagree as to the merits of running our fuel tanks down close to empty, and my advice to douglas307 on actually tempting fate with his fuel consumption remains as it was originally, "Don't do it if you can avoid it, as it can damage your engine".

Good luck. :cheers:

PS - If you still decide to run yours dry, let us know how far you go after "0Miles to Empty"! :wiggle:
 

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Ok, after having my browser close and lose my entire text(about a page single spaced), I'm going to ask this. Where are the facts? What facts to you claim I'm dismissing? I can't see any facts, unless you count that it's a fact that ford put this quote in the owners manual: "Avoid running out of fuel because this situation may have an adverse effect on powertrain components." That's not proof of anything. The engineers that made this car, or engine, nor the mechanics that work on them wrote it.

"...this situation may have an adverse effect on powertrain components." Yes, so might driving in cold weather, hot weather, taking a sunday drive for fun, or picking up your large mother-in-law and driving with her in the back seat! :lol:
I think it's much not important for people to worry about basic maintenance then thinking they might damage their engine by running low on fuel. Now I think we can agree on this one right?

My main point is that your filter is going to clog if there's enough contaminates regardless of how or when it gets there. Same goes for water. THE fact is if it gets in your tank, it will get pulled into the fuel system by the fuel pump. How you might ask? The fuel pickup is located at the very bottom of your fuel tank, and as I will quote you:
[quote author=bbf2530 link=topic=85878.msg1629964#msg1629964 date=1186806783]
Contaminants and water in your gas tank are heavier than the fuel. They settle to the bottom of the tank.
[/quote]
I couldn't agree more. I've seen it first hand in both gasoline and diesel fuel tanks. So I'm going to guess that this is one of your facts, because it's 100% true, because hey man, you can't fight physics. Well, I guess you could....But not me.

One more thing to keep in mind, anything settled at the bottom of your tank, can get stirred up by just about anything, fast turns, speed bumps, pot holes, hard braking, the list goes on and on, the only way not to suck up these contaminates to to not drive your car or drive it so slow that you'd never know you started moving.
The best defense against clogging your fuel filter is the never get contaminates in there in the first place.

I would like to add on last thought. I think want bbf is thinking of is that when fuel gets lower it sloshes more. It only takes a little bit of air in the fuel tank for it to slosh. 1/2 tank or 1/4 tank, the slosh is still going to stir up sediment and get pulled into the fuel system.

I'm at 23.5 miles after "0 miles to empty"
 

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Hi mechanicboy. :wavey: As I said, at this point, we should just agree to disagree. I will follow the advice of the Owners Manual (and what I have been taught), and you will follow what you have been taught. America is a great country huh? We are free to follow our own path. :yay:

So, no harm, no foul. Let's play on! :hug:

As to your ongoing fuel mileage quest...You go mechanicboy, give 'em hell, and good luck! :cheers:


PS - And my condolences on the size of your Mother-in law! (just kidding) :lmao:
 

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As mechanicboy said, today's gas is "drier" than the gas of yesteryear. This is why you have trouble with cracking seals and o-rings. Also, this is why I occasionally add a maintenance dose of Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant. This product will condition those seals and lubricate your fuel system. A lot of people are confused by this thinking that the Lucas UCL is some sort of "cleaner" when in fact, it's more of a lubricant.

I just wanted to add that. You guys can continue to e-fight :chuckles:
 

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[quote author=bbf2530 link=topic=85878.msg1631567#msg1631567 date=1186886450]
Hi mrc! :wavey:
[/quote]

bbf! :wavey: How are you? :wiggle:
 

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Well the science is on my side, but hey, I must agree that we do live in a great country. I live in California, and I must say though, it's going downhill fast here. Been thinking about moving my family to a better state.

So back on my how far after 0 quest. I should have seen it coming. I was heading for the overpass exit and was going pretty quick and had to made a sharp left turn heading uphill to go over the overpass. I pull out of the turn and go straight I hit the throttle, then nothing.... I had more gas in my tank, but it was out of reach of the fuel pickup. I was right at 30 miles after "0 miles to empty", disappointing but physics wins again. I know on flat land I should have been able to go at least another 20 miles. I put 2 gallons in the tank and she started right up and went right over the overpass.
 

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Does anyone realize that the fuel pump has a strainer at the pick up and an integrated filter?
Running out of fuel on a fuel injected car can create air pockets in the lines, and fuel rail. This can cause some driveability problems as the injectors wouldnt be putting out as much fuel as the ECU thinks, causing a lean condition and/or detonation.
 

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[quote author=confuciousD30 link=topic=85878.msg1631962#msg1631962 date=1186904017]
Does anyone realize that the fuel pump has a strainer at the pick up and an integrated filter?
Running out of fuel on a fuel injected car can create air pockets in the lines, and fuel rail. This can cause some driveability problems as the injectors wouldnt be putting out as much fuel as the ECU thinks, causing a lean condition and/or detonation.
[/quote]
Not to mention the bucking affect that running out of gas tends to cause, that plays hell on tx's manual and auto alike.
 

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[quote author=confuciousD30 link=topic=85878.msg1631962#msg1631962 date=1186904017]
Does anyone realize that the fuel pump has a strainer at the pick up and an integrated filter?
Running out of fuel on a fuel injected car can create air pockets in the lines, and fuel rail. This can cause some driveability problems as the injectors wouldnt be putting out as much fuel as the ECU thinks, causing a lean condition and/or detonation.
[/quote]

I didn't have any of those problems, it simply lost fuel pressure due to the fuel being out of reach of the pickup and the engine died. Once I put enough fuel in for it to reach the pickup the fuel pump primed the fuel system system. Fuel pumps in todays cars pump more volume of fuel then is needed by the engine and the fuel regulator bypasses this excess fuel back to the fuel tank. When the pump primes the fuel system it should push all, or most of the air out of the fuel system the first time you turn the key on. If you are worried about running into a lean condition or having bubbles in you fuel system after running out of fuel there is something you can do. Prime the fuel system multiple times. Simply turn the key to the "ON" position few a few seconds at a time, 2-3 times. I didn't do this have have no knock, funny sounds, or bucking at all.

Today's, or I should say the fuel systems I've worked with, will only turn on the fuel injectors when there is enough fuel pressure in the system. I assume that we all know here that air takes much more time to pressurize the liquid? The little fuel pump would not be able to provide enough volume to provide enough pressure to cause the computer to try to start the engine. Sure the engine might crank, but your injectors aren't opening.

While I admit that not all systems maybe like this as I haven't work on them all. I know all GM systems are and my 92 Lincoln town car was.
 

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Bottom line........ DON'T RUN OUT OF GAS! :autoxer: :dur: :dur: :dur: :dur:
 

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I used to believe in the junk in the bottom of the tank theory, but the fuel pick up really is down there at the bottom, so it's going to pick it up anyway. I let my Miata sit for a few months and hadn't put any fuel stabilizer in it. Despite 3/4 of a tank, it still managed to pick up enough water that it wouldn't start.

I think the owner's manual statement is just a cover for that rare instance when a momentary fuel cut could cause damaging detonation. On my turbo RX7, I always autocross with full fuel because I've heard plenty of stories about fuel cutting out while under boost at high rpm. The resulting detonation will blow the apex seals in the rotary. The Fusion is certainly more robust and doesn't have boost, but there's still the possibility.

Remember that the factory service procedure to relieve fuel pressure on most vehicles is to pull the fuel pump fuse and just let the car "run out of gas".
 

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It’s fairly obvious why Ford does not want you to run out of gas; They don’t want you to call road side assistance. They also don't wan't anyone to see their products Found On Road Dead.
 
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