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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Have any of you on here considered converting your Fusion to support E85 fuel? I'm thinking of doing it and wanted some advice if possible.

THX!
 

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Advice?

Don't.

"Converting a vehicle that was designed to operate on unleaded gasoline only to operate on another form of fuel is a violation of the federal law and the offender may be subject to significant penalties."

..."fuel injector size, air-fuel ratio, PCM calibrations, material composition of the fuel lines, pumps and tanks are just a few of the components that contribute to making an E85 conversion extremely complex.

http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/faqs/conversion.php


Upgrades to the fuel system (since the fuel is more caustic) are required, as well as a totally new ECU program (because the fuel has a very high octane rating, near 100+ Oct), and new O2 sensors. Cams are often replaced as well. Plus, E85 has less energy per gallon than gasoline, meaning your gas mileage will suffer as a result. If you want to go green, take public transportation. If you want better gas mileage, get your ECU retuned and lay off the accelerator pedal.

{Edit: fixed link}
 

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Yeah, what he just said. :D Don't do it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That's interesting considering there is an EPA approved conversion kit out there now. I also found a Ford dealership which does the conversion work and covers it under warranty. I'll have to do some more research on it.

Interesting indeed.
 

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EPA doesn't approve conversion kits, and poof, thats all you need to be legal. They only approve each vehicle for its certification. That means if you add a kit, to make it legal, that vehicle itself must be certified for use with E85 and not just the kit itself. It costs $1100 where I live to get the certification done on an approved kit, and if the kit is not certified for the vehicle, the cost is closer to $15,000-25,000 to be legal. Also the vehicle must maintain its emissions for a pretty good amount of time(40k-50k miles from what I remember.)

There is a reason why Ethanol isn't getting as big of a push as it did 1 year ago. Ethanol costs more money than it is worth in the big scheme of things, and no, I'm not talking about the price at the pump.
By the time we switch over to 50% E85 support among localities, we will already be able to use an improved fuel from a renewable source. Biobutanol seems to be the next big one, and its pipe-able, unlike ethanol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
[quote author=torinogt link=topic=94911.msg1884310#msg1884310 date=1196309285]
I was thinking about doing this one http://www.change2e85.com
It says it is EPA compliant.
[/quote]

I was considering the fuel flex gold as well, but this Ford dealership only installs/provides warranty for Flextek, and I didn't want to risk it by doing it myself.

I still haven't made up my mind on whether I'll do it or not, but I'll probably go that route if I do.
 

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Wow that website is scary.

It dosen't bother you to do nothing to the car other than interrupt the pulse to the fuel injector with some "magic black box" to regulate the flow of fuel (by some unknown standard) and do nothing to the rest of the fuel system?

I'm sorry, but I don't have a $25,000 toy project, I have a daily driver.

My best guess of what it is: Fuel injectors are Pulse-Width-Modulated devices [in a given amount of time, say one second, the injector is turned on for a percentage of that time, from 0%-100%] with fuel-delivery maps built into the vehicle. Since E85 is a higher octane fuel and it is less dense , I imagine they are trying to push more E85 in the cylinder by interrupting that pulse and modifying it by a fixed amount (keeping the injector on 30% more time than stock, for example, at all times).

Why this will not work:
There is simply less energy available in E85 than in a gallon of gasoline. Without making other significant changes to the engine (advancing the timing quite a lot, raising compression ratio of cylinders), the car will drop drastically in gas mileage. On top of that, if your car requires 87 octane, would you fill it up with 100 octane fuel knowing that it will not do anything for your performance?
Trust some guy's black box not to blow up your car do you? (drastic, but true, you have no idea what the $400+ "system" does)
Where are the changes to the fuel delivery system? The O-rings, different hose materials, tank lining, etc? Is this a short-term use only device?

Not saying it would not be interesting to try, but I would do it with a "winter beater" car before I ever did it with a brand-new vehicle.
 

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Yes I do know that running E-85 will give me less mpg. I run E-85 in my John deere Lawn mower and it runs fine. All I did to it was make it a little richer. In fact it runs cooler on hot days. Any engine can run on it its not going to make it blow up or anything. I have a old pick-up and tried E-85 in that and it ran just fine. I did nothing to it. I would like to support the farmers and Not "big oil". Also it is a lot better for the enviroment.
 

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Well, yeah, and it probably IS EPA compliant.................but it doesn't make it legal.
 

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[quote author=torinogt link=topic=94911.msg1886499#msg1886499 date=1196387026]
I would like to support the farmers and Not "big oil". Also it is a lot better for the enviroment.
[/quote]

You're rarely supporting "farmers" but rather the big AG firms that have as much lobbying and corrupting power as Big Oil. Also, it's hardly better for the environment. It produces more smog, pollutes water supplies, drains aquifers, burns millions of gallons of diesel in its transport since it can't be piped, etc. etc.

If you want to run it, fine. Just don't act like you're really doing anyone a favor. Don't buy the hype, it doesn't hold water.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
[quote author=Chris06Fusion link=topic=94911.msg1887226#msg1887226 date=1196419735]
How much is the dealership charing for this service?
[/quote]

They are charging $795 for the product and full install (includes dash switch).
 

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Your lawn mower does not have a sophisticated fuel/timing/spark management system, O2 sensors, fuel injection, a catlyst, or other features a Fusion has.

Turning a carb screw is not the same as MAF sensing.

My point was unless they release exactly what they are doing and how they are doing it, it could potentially cause permenant damage over long term.

It's up to you to use your judgement, I just hope it's not solely based on your experience tuning a John Deere.
 
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