[thereisnospoon]

I installed the Progress RSB yesterday along with the discovery of my metal to metal rubbing (which is discussed in the Eibach thread).

However, I also had the pleasure (if you could call it that) of installing the Progress RSB and 08 SAP Shocks and struts. And, I will say that without Abbot's help, I would have completely been dead in the water.

The Progress RSB is NOT as easy as it sounds. As soon as you get it into position, all is cool. However, I think we had more issues with getting the D*$*#* thing into position than actually putting it on.

The key to the RSB install was not to tighten down the bushing bolts to the subframe prior to making sure the RSB was in the right place as far as the endlinks were concerned. If the bar was too high, the endlinks couldn't make a correct interface with the lower arm. You definitely need some way to compress the lower arm to make sure the endlinks correctly match to the lower arm.

First pic shows the difference in size between the OE RSB and the Progress RSB. The others show the Progress in place (after much cussing, etc.).

The 08 SAP dampers were not that difficult. The hardest part, again, was maneuvering. To get the damper out, there are three bolts in a triangular fashion that must be removed before the damper can be removed...and of course the lower bolt. After that it's pretty much just a matter of removing the top damper bolt, switching the upper housing over to the new damper, and putting it back in place. The bolt on the outside most area was a *$&$#%( to get to. A big piece that connects to the rotor and rear wheel assembly limits the ability of you being able to sneak even a 1/4" drive socket in there. And, it's such a tight space that not even my 25-degree offset wrenches would fit around the bolt. That's the one time I would have really liked to have a set of OFFSET OPEN wrenches.

Here you can see Abbot doing a little hand modeling, holding the shocks with the upper housing attached to the new damper.

I can say that I definitely do notice a handling difference. The car now drives better than the 08 SAP Fusion I drove at the stealership. And, best part - no squeakage!

 

[iowaguy]

those shocks look identical. how do you know they're not the same ones I have on my SEV6? I mean is it just a different part # or is it actually a revalved shock? and also, how come you're so hellbent on this SAP suspension? there has to be better stuff out there than the stock Ford stuff. what gives?

 

[Talisman]

[quote author=iowaguy link=topic=94367.msg1850436#msg1850436 date=1194934817]
those shocks look identical. how do you know they're not the same ones I have on my SEV6? I mean is it just a different part # or is it actually a revalved shock? and also, how come you're so hellbent on this SAP suspension? there has to be better stuff out there than the stock Ford stuff. what gives?
[/quote]

it is a different part number and it is a revalved shock.Its a much more sporty improvement over stock. And no, there isnt a better performance shock available for the car.Coupled with some performance lowering springs it makes a huge difference.

You can always buy the 1400 dollar H & R coilovers if you must have only aftermarket parts in your suspension.

 

[HALOREALM]

[quote author=Talisman link=topic=94367.msg1850548#msg1850548 date=1194942987]
[quote author=iowaguy link=topic=94367.msg1850436#msg1850436 date=1194934817]
those shocks look identical. how do you know they're not the same ones I have on my SEV6? I mean is it just a different part # or is it actually a revalved shock? and also, how come you're so hellbent on this SAP suspension? there has to be better stuff out there than the stock Ford stuff. what gives?
[/quote]

it is a different part number and it is a revalved shock.Its a much more sporty improvement over stock. And no, there isnt a better performance shock available for the car.Coupled with some performance lowering springs it makes a huge difference.

You can always buy the 1400 dollar H & R coilovers if you must have only aftermarket parts in your suspension.
[/quote]
Does anyone have numbers--like a ratio comparison of the two dampers showing the difference or anything like that. Not that I don't believe what nospoon said, I've been waiting a month for this write up but I would like to see it on paper.

 

[iowaguy]

I am no suspension expert so I probably should keep my mouth shut, but I have a problem doing that when it concerns common sense. I must say that I doubt that this ford shock is the best shock available for the car. I mean, that is saying a lot when there are koni shocks that can be bolted right on and probably for less than these oem ford shocks. Maybe the test ride you took in the sap fusion went to your better judgment and you made a hasty decision before testing the waters in other areas. I mean I'm glad you're happy but to say that this ford shock is the best one available for the fusion is saying a lot. I would disagree. Even Chevy knows that their shocks can't put up with the rigors of their more performance oriented vehicles, which they fit bilstein shocks to. I belive koni's came on mustang svo's back in the day. If ford was serious about this pkg, they'd a done the same thing but they knew it would drive up the cost too much. There are better alternatives, but if you're happy that's all that counts. Also, did you compare just the shocks to the ones you replaced, or are you comparing the new sap shocks, the new RSB, and any other mods you did at that time? If you didn't just install the sap shocks only, after swapping out the oems, then it's not really the sap shocks alone making the difference.

 

[Talisman]

[quote author=iowaguy link=topic=94367.msg1851157#msg1851157 date=1194978264]
I am no suspension expert so I probably should keep my mouth shut, but I have a problem doing that when it concerns common sense. I must say that I doubt that this ford shock is the best shock available for the car. I mean, that is saying a lot when there are koni shocks that can be bolted right on and probably for less than these oem ford shocks. Maybe the test ride you took in the sap fusion went to your better judgment and you made a hasty decision before testing the waters in other areas. I mean I'm glad you're happy but to say that this ford shock is the best one available for the fusion is saying a lot. I would disagree. Even Chevy knows that their shocks can't put up with the rigors of their more performance oriented vehicles, which they fit bilstein shocks to. I belive koni's came on mustang svo's back in the day. If ford was serious about this pkg, they'd a done the same thing but they knew it would drive up the cost too much. There are better alternatives, but if you're happy that's all that counts. Also, did you compare just the shocks to the ones you replaced, or are you comparing the new sap shocks, the new RSB, and any other mods you did at that time? If you didn't just install the sap shocks only, after swapping out the oems, then it's not really the sap shocks alone making the difference.
[/quote]

Its the best shock not because its quality is extrodinarily high but because it is THE ONLY shock available for the car other than regular OEM. Of course people would be using Konis or Bilsteins or KYB's.If they made them.lol. Also these are cheaper than aftermarket shocks.

You can always use shocks designed for the Mazda 6 or the H & R coilovers. The only thing is the Mazda 6 shoks were made specifically for that car so it SHOULD be fine but we dont really know.

EDIT: I guess our stock and sport package shocks are KYB shocks so remove that from the list of manufacturers I named. lol

 

[iowaguy]

LOL, how do you know it's quality is of extraordinary standards when they were just released and you just installed them? KYB's aren't much to brag about, at least not in motorcycle suspensions. And I would guess their bike suspensions are much better than their auto shocks. The Mazda 6 is the same exact car underneath, or at least in the chassis components so why not go with shocks of proven excellence for that car and just install them on your ford? I am not dissing you, but when you say that these new ford shocks are the best out there for this car, it needs to be proven to me I guess. And we all know what junk ford puts out these days for components. Downright atrocious.

 

[fatabbot]

[quote author=iowaguy link=topic=94367.msg1851406#msg1851406 date=1194986073]
LOL, how do you know it's quality is of extraordinary standards when they were just released and you just installed them?
[/quote]

Reading is FUNdamental

[quote author=Talisman link=topic=94367.msg1851294#msg1851294 date=1194982588]

Its the best shock NOT because its quality is extrodinarily high but because it is THE ONLY shock available for the car other than regular OEM.
[/quote]

Sometimes I think you just like to argue.

 

[iowaguy]

I like to argue? So what's the difference from him saying his sap shocks are the best shocks available for the fusion and me saying the Fusion V6 will outrun a Civic Si? You argued with me on that one til the cows came home and said that it is a proven fact. But now you support this statement without any basis whatsoever? Is it arguing when you want someone to prove something to you? I would think you too would be a little critical of some of the claims made about these sap shocks lately around here. They're just oem ford shocks, like a factory off-road pkg, and anyone who knows anything about 4x4ing knows that any factory off-road pkg is pretty much just fluff with 2-3 exceptions. (ZR2, TRD, Power Wagon, Rubicon Wrangler- the older one)

 

[fatabbot]

[quote author=iowaguy link=topic=94367.msg1851524#msg1851524 date=1194989022]
So what's the difference from him saying his sap shocks are the best shocks available for the fusion and me saying the Fusion V6 will outrun a Civic Si?
[/quote]

Wow, thanks for proving my point....

You obviously like to argue because you read what you wanted to read from his post. Now I'm not saying that you don't have any valid points, just asking that you slow down and make sure you got your facts straight.

[quote author=iowaguy link=topic=94367.msg1851524#msg1851524 date=1194989022]
You argued with me on that one til the cows came home and said that it is a proven fact.
[/quote]

Because it was a proven fact and you never answered any of my questions in that thread....

[quote author=iowaguy link=topic=94367.msg1851524#msg1851524 date=1194989022]
But now you support this statement without any basis whatsoever?
[/quote]

Again, you're proving my point for me. I never said I agreed with him (or anyone else for that matter). Anything else you'd like to imagine and then fight about it?

 

[benit0]

[quote author=Talisman link=topic=94367.msg1850548#msg1850548 date=1194942987]
You can always buy the 1400 dollar H & R coilovers if you must have only aftermarket parts in your suspension.
[/quote]

or the luxury of having your suspension be completely hight adjustable....

also, tien makes some sport struts/dampers/shocks. going oem from SAP is an improvement.. but by all means its not your only choice, even if you take money in to concern, you could do better for just as much.

 

[Talisman]

[quote author=iowaguy link=topic=94367.msg1851406#msg1851406 date=1194986073]
LOL, how do you know it's quality is of extraordinary standards when they were just released and you just installed them? KYB's aren't much to brag about, at least not in motorcycle suspensions. And I would guess their bike suspensions are much better than their auto shocks. The Mazda 6 is the same exact car underneath, or at least in the chassis components so why not go with shocks of proven excellence for that car and just install them on your ford? I am not dissing you, but when you say that these new ford shocks are the best out there for this car, it needs to be proven to me I guess. And we all know what junk ford puts out these days for components. Downright atrocious.
[/quote]

I never said its quality was extraordinary. Its simple. they are the best for our car because they are the only thing out other than stock for the Fusion(besides coilovers). Sure Koni makes a better shock for the mazda 6 that physically fits the Fusion. However its FOR the Mazda 6, so it cant be the best for the Fusion.

P.S. I could see if the 6 and fusion used the same part numbers for shocks but they dont. Even aftermarket companies use different suspension setups between the car so there is a difference there. So go ahead and buy them if you want them and then tell us all how it works out. Everyone wants to know anyway.

[quote author=benit0 link=topic=94367.msg1851579#msg1851579 date=1194991090]
[quote author=Talisman link=topic=94367.msg1850548#msg1850548 date=1194942987]
You can always buy the 1400 dollar H & R coilovers if you must have only aftermarket parts in your suspension.
[/quote]

or the luxury of having your suspension be completely hight adjustable....

also, tien makes some sport struts/dampers/shocks. going oem from SAP is an improvement.. but by all means its not your only choice, even if you take money in to concern, you could do better for just as much.
[/quote]

The H & R units are awesome. If I needed to go that serious on my car I would but even the non SAP shocks for a fusion are a step up from the 06 Zephyr shocks. I jus need the body to be a little more controlled.

Also the tien units last I checked were for the 6 correct? If i spend the amount of money required for coilovers or the Tein setup I want to know that it was designed specifically for my car. The fact that H & R designs different coilovers for the mazda 6 just reiterates how I feel about this.

IM NOT SAYING EVERYONE HAS TO FOLLOW MY LEAD.Just sharing what I feel comfortable doing and relying on for my daily driver.I need function and reliability over everything else.

 

[benit0]

also, i wouldn't go to websites and look specifically for the fusion, just because it doesn't have your car name there, doesn't mean it won't work. Kinda gotta think outside the box.

Koni makes shocks, as well as KW Suspensions.

same thing with brakes, hell, you can't seem to find any "affordable" big brakes kit for your car right? well, wildwood has a kit, granted it doesn't have ford fusion labeled all over it, you can still use it. its just a matter of matching certain parts together.

Either way, i think its cool that you got the SAP suspension like you wanted, and that it turned out great (especially for the price.) But i wouldn't make it seem that its the only option, because its not.

 

[iowaguy]

Either way, i think its cool that you got the SAP suspension like you wanted, and that it turned out great (especially for the price.) But i wouldn't make it seem that its the only option, because its not.
[/quote]

thank you, exactly what my whole point was. factory parts are usually junk when it comes to suspension and brakes considering when one is trying to reach a higher level of performance than just a stock car. Like I said earlier, I'm glad he is happy, but they're not the only things out there and certainly not the "best". If Ford had the shock market cornered and regularly produced the best ones for the least price, I do not think they'd be struggling to keep their head above water. :lol:

 

[thereisnospoon]

also, tien makes some sport struts/dampers/shocks. going oem from SAP is an improvement.. but by all means its not your only choice, even if you take money in to concern, you could do better for just as much.

BULL

I'd like to see Ford warranty anything at the wheels if something goes wrong with aftermarket shocks that aren't specifically approved for the Fusion. Even with some Mazda 6 parts I was told to be extremely careful by people who know WTF they're talking about.

I'm sure that I could buy lots of shocks that could fit the Fusion, but why? I've been told that most of the aftermarket Mazda6 shocks will fit no problem. There are a few other makes/models but they're in the other room and I just don't care to get up and post them here.

I'm not going to be motocrossing this thing. Buying $1,400 coilovers IMO is a waste of money and a huge way to F up the quality of ride of the vehicle (not to mention the warranty, the tires, the alignment that you could probably never re-obtain after installation, etc.). I'd buy Koni, Bilstein, etc. but what if I ever have a problem? Do you honestly think these manufacturers would own up to it if I installed them on my Fusion and one of 'em blew? If THESE dampers go out, Ford replaces them with the same part (which, BTW, IS different as noted by Abbot during the install). I don't have to worry.

Oh, and I can tell a HELL of a difference with the 08 SAP Shocks/Struts. Eibachs cost me $200, 08 SAP Shocks/Struts cost $150. It's not even a minimal difference in ride quality. It's rather large. For $350 vs. $1,400, I have an extra thou to blow.

I'd write more, but Talisman and Abbot pretty much sum it up.

 

[iowaguy]

as I said in the other thread, Ford will laugh you right out of the service area when they see your lowered and braced up car and you requesting replacement shocks under warranty when they didn't even come on your car to start with. Even if you took in a stock car with stock shocks that blew on your car, it's only after so many miles they will replace suspension and brake components under the 3/36 warranty. It usually excludes those items. Getting them to replace what would be in their eyes, an aftermarket part since it really is a modification to the car, would be like pulling teeth in my experience with dealerships/service depts. They would immediately blame the blown shock on the springs and you'd be out what, $150/4?
Look, not to beat this to death, but we're all happy that you're happy with your sap shock mod and being the pioneer and all. But when you claim these "package shocks" are the best out there and that they are the ONLY shocks available for the Fusion, that's when some of us have problems. It sends a false message to people wanting to shock/spring their Fusion/Milan. That's all.

 

[Talisman]

[quote author=iowaguy link=topic=94367.msg1853552#msg1853552 date=1195053995]
Look, not to beat this to death, but we're all happy that you're happy with your sap shock mod and being the pioneer and all. But when you claim these "package shocks" are the best out there and that they are the ONLY shocks available for the Fusion, that's when some of us have problems. It sends a false message to people wanting to shock/spring their Fusion/Milan. That's all.
[/quote]

It really doesnt at all.Nobody said they were the only shocks that fit the Fusion.We said they are the only(which makes them the best)performance enhancing shocks available for the Fusion(besides what comes with the coilovers).No offense but its like you have a comprehension problem.

If you disagree then name a current shock that says it is FOR the fusion? Not one that just happens to fit.

I think its important to let people know before they spend their money that while there are parts out there that may fit, they were not optimized for the Fusion.Its basically buy at your own risk.

 

[iowaguy]

so your whole argument is that they have to specifically say that they were "optimized" for the fusion? So really, then according to your logic, these shocks will not work for a milan because this pkg is not offered on the mercury. These shocks were not engineered for the milan so they cannot be called "the best" for that car, right?
I've seen some naive people and ford fans, but you guys take the cake. Keep on enjoying those "awesome" oem ford shocks and thinking you have the best suspension available, if that's what you believe then hey, good for you.
But isn't the aftermarket world all about experimentation in the first place? I mean, your own logic contradicts itself. You installed the sap shocks with eibach springs. Is that combination proven and has it been optimized by ford for the fusion? If your logic holds, then you would have installed the sap springs with sap shocks- that would be the optimization you are looking for. But let's not introduce an argument into this, and then only use it when it benefits your logic in the debate. It doesn't work like that. Installing these shocks with the aftermarket springs is no different than installing HR springs with some koni shocks, they're both mods that have never been tested by ford, and that right there is the flaw in your argument. Even though the sap shocks have been "optimized" by ford for the fusion, using the eibachs eliminates any optimization ford might have put into those shocks.
So who has problems with comprehension now? :lol:

 

[Talisman]

lol, no it doesnt. Here is the thing. The OEM shocks were made for the Fusion which uses the exact same parts as the Milan. When you buy aftermarket springs, they use the exact same parts for the Fusion,Milan,and Zephyr. And once again, his Eibach springs were designed FOR the Fusion using OEM shocks. These parts were tested and meant for these cars.

Now check the part number on eibach or H & R springs for the Mazda 6 vs. Ford fusion. They are different. do the same thing with the shocks from Ford.Different also.Do you think these companies arent aware that the suspensions on these cars are swappable?There is obviously something they felt they needed to change to make these parts optimal for the Ford Fusion(and its siblings). When you buy parts for the Mazda 6 they may work and they may work very well but you are obviously missing out on whatever this extra engineering was. Now its possible that there are no negatives between swapping shocks but we dont really know that do we? And to tell someone they can just buy shocks that were not designed with their car in mind without mentioning this is irresponsible.So once again, the SAP shocks are the best actually FOR the Ford Fusion.

 

[iowaguy]

LOL. You're saying that every part needs to be optimized by ford for the car. The eibachs coupled with the sap shocks haven't been through this optimization so you cannot argue that. Pairing eibachs with sap shocks is no different from installing eibach mazda springs with oem SE shocks or any other random shock/spring combo. Even though the eibach has been engineered for the fusion, it hasn't been engineered by ford OR eibach to work with the sap shock. Out the window your argument goes again. You are rationalizing in any way you can. It's okay though, that's usually what we do when others introduce factors into our purchase or decision that we didn't think of prior to buying or making a big decision. If everyone cared so much about aftermarket mods not being engineered for a specific car, there would be no aftermarket industry. The 6 and fusion are the same car under the sheetmetal, they use the same chassis- ford just enlarged it a bit. The cars weigh the same give or take a few pounds, even fusions/milans/mkz/zephyrs vary in weight along trim lines. The parts interchange from mazda to ford. These aren't porsches requiring specific running gear for each model of car. They're mass produced sedans built alongside each other using identical parts.