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Old 05-02-2010, 09:51 AM   #1
dcaranci
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Default When to change oil and what type?

Ok, before you jump on me for not reading the manual... I DID read the manual, and the service suplement and I'm still not entirely clear.

The documentation states that the oil reminder in the car is set to 1200 kms or 6 mos and that the factory fill is a Synthetic blend.

Here's my question:
Documentation recomends synthetic, synthetic blend, and even conventional (provided it meets the spec), however I can't find anywhere that says that the duration between changes should be changed based on the oil type. Sure, a synthetic or blend may be ok for 1200kms with no problem, but there's no way a conventional will last that long. The dealer uses conventional oil, so how often should it be changed? They told me 3 mos or 5000kms, but I can't find supporting documetation ANYWHERE confirming that.

I questioned them, they responded that "Canada is considered more harsh environment so more frequent oil changes are preferred". Again, no documentation and the service manual suplement is from Ford Canada, printed in Canada so I would "think" it would consider that if it were true.

If the dealer used the same blend the factory did, then I would say they the 1200kms/6mos would be find and the documentation is clear. However they use conventional oil, and if I do my own (after the dealer's free-bee's run out) I will likely also use a conventional oil. Simply put, 1200kms or 5000kms?

I fully understand that it never hurts to be more conservative with more frequent changes, but if it's not necessary it's both a waste of money and environmentally un-firendly.

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE CLEAR THIS UP FOR ME?????

Thanks...
D.
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Old 05-02-2010, 01:04 PM   #2
Curmudgeon
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Default Re: When to change oil and what type?

Does the motor oil used by the dealer meet Ford's WSS-M2C930-A spec? I'm unaware of any brand of conventional (i.e. not syn or syn blend) 5W-20 engine oil that meets the spec. On the other hand, I can't imagine a Ford dealer using an oil not meeting the spec.

If your dealer is using a Motorcraft oil (or equivalent) meeting the spec, I would assume you can abide by the recommended drain intervals.

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Old 05-02-2010, 02:36 PM   #3
dcaranci
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Default Re: When to change oil and what type?

That's the point... WHAT interval? There's no way conventional oil is good for 12000kms. Synthetic or synth blend ok, but not conventional.

You do raise a good question though, maybe there is no conventional oil that meets the spec? In which case, once again, this dealer knows nothing and they may be using a synthetic blend.
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Old 05-02-2010, 09:56 PM   #4
Curmudgeon
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Default Re: When to change oil and what type?

Most would likely agree that a drain interval of 12,000kms using CONVENTIONAL oil in an engine under warranty would not be a recommended practice. The key word here is 'conventional'. Since there is no 'conventional' 5W-20 oil meeting Ford's spec that I am aware of (and I doubt that any Ford dealer is using 'conventional' oil), such oil can be further dismissed from this discussion.

Thus, assuming that you and/or your dealer are using an API brand of oil meeting the Ford spec (there are several syn or syn blends available besides Motorcraft), your only consideration is a determination of whether your vehicle use constitutes NORMAL or SEVERE service and follow the longer or shorter drain intervals recommended by Ford.

In my view, any dealer or oil change vendor who recommends 5,000km oil changes in a modern vehicle is either outdated, technologically challenged, or greedy unless 'conventional' oil is the topic vis-a-vis syn or syn blends.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:42 PM   #5
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Default Re: When to change oil and what type?

[quote author=dcaranci link=topic=171918.msg3641899#msg3641899 date=1272808264]
They told me 3 mos or 5000kms, but I can't find supporting documetation ANYWHERE confirming that.
[/quote]You WON'T find any documentation simply because there are too many variables.... for example, how hard the car is driven, where it's driven, and which filter was used. Just as conventional oil isn't as good as synthetic, a crappy filter (like a wal-mart fram) isn't as good as a Mobil 1 or K&N filter. It's not going to matter which oil you use if the filter prematurely stops filtering. Simply make sure that the oil meets Ford specs and use a good quality filter (Mobil 1/K&N) and you will be golden. I recently changed my oil and used Pennzoil Ultra (it's currently the only GF-5 rated oil) with a K&N 2011 and the car runs soooo much smoother that sometimes it actually feels like the engine isn't even running You should also get in the habit of saving your receipts for the oil you use so that your warranties will stay in effect. For the record I don't personally feel that being conservative with more frequent changes is a waste. The whole purpose of using oil is to PROTECT your engine. Anything that you do that protects your engine (including being a little conservative with oil changes) cannot be a waste of money. On the other hand doing engine damage by nickel and diming a oil change would be a waste of money, as it could have so easily have been prevented. Serioulsly, you're talking less than 40 bucks every 4-5K miles to protect your car. I wish I could buy car insurance that cheap...

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Old 05-04-2010, 04:44 PM   #6
dcaranci
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Default Re: When to change oil and what type?

Well I don't want to be argumentative, but using that logic maybe I should be changing my oil every week or every 100kms then? Yes, I'm being sarcastic but I think you're missing my point.

Yes, I agree $40 or whatever it costs is cheap insurance but I also know that modern powertrains and modern oils (even conventional ones) will, under normal driving conditions, last beyond 5000kms.

All I want to know is simply this... based on NORMAL driving conditions and using CONVENTIONAL oil, what is the recomended oil change interval?

Oh, and by the way I found that MOST 5W20 name-brand conventional oil DOES meet the Ford spec, or at least it says it does on the bottle. I verified Penzoil, Castrol, and Quaker State before I decided it's not worth checking more.

I'm now trying to get an answer from Ford as well, but they are taking a while to get back to me.

Cheers...
D.
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:48 PM   #7
bbf2530
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Default Re: When to change oil and what type?

[quote author=dcaranci link=topic=171918.msg3645569#msg3645569 date=1273005854]
Well I don't want to be argumentative, but using that logic maybe I should be changing my oil every week or every 100kms then? Yes, I'm being sarcastic but I think you're missing my point.

Yes, I agree $40 or whatever it costs is cheap insurance but I also know that modern powertrains and modern oils (even conventional ones) will, under normal driving conditions, last beyond 5000kms.

All I want to know is simply this... based on NORMAL driving conditions and using CONVENTIONAL oil, what is the recomended oil change interval?

Oh, and by the way I found that MOST 5W20 name-brand conventional oil DOES meet the Ford spec, or at least it says it does on the bottle. I verified Penzoil, Castrol, and Quaker State before I decided it's not worth checking more.

I'm now trying to get an answer from Ford as well, but they are taking a while to get back to me.

Cheers...
D.
[/quote]

Hi D. Simply put, Ford does not differentiate between Synthetic, Synthetic Blend and Conventional oils in their Scheduled Maintenance recommendations.

Therefore, any 5W-20 oil that meets the following Ford Specs (WSS-M2C930-A with API Certification Mark) is good for the Normal and Severe Duty OCI (Oil Change Interval) Schedules as printed in our "Ford Scheduled Maintenance Guides". In the U.S., that OCI is 6 months/7,500 miles for "Normal Service", and 6 months/5,000 miles for "Severe Duty". Some quick math tells me the metric conversions would be 12,000 km "Normal Service and 8,000 km Severe Duty.

Ignore the 3,000 mile(or equivalent kilometer conversion) OCI's that Dealer will try to push (unless you want to follow it by choice). They are outdated and Dealers only promote them to make more Service profit. Follow the Ford Scheduled Maintenance Guide that can be found here: www.fleet.ford.com/maintenance/owners_manuals/default.asp Fill in the drop-downs and click "Submit". Then click on "Scheduled Maintenance Guide". Be sure to follow the pages listing the Maintenance Schedule for "Passenger Cars and CUV's", not the one for "Trucks, Vans, and SUV's. And read the descriptions of what constitutes "Normal" and "Severe" service/duty, then decide which schedule best fits your car.

Now, to avoid me getting involved in a debate: I do not know if there are any conventional oils that "meet and/or exceed" the Ford specification I stated above. "dcaranci" says he found three that state they do on the bottle.

If they meet/exceed that Ford spec, then as far as Ford is concerned, the OCI is still the same as a Synth or Synth blend. Simply put, same spec, same OCI. I am not making a judgment or expressing an opinion as to whether anyone should or "do this" or "not do that". I am only presenting the Ford Service Policy. If it meets the Ford "WSS-M2C930-A with API Certification Mark" spec, then the regular OCI's stand, whether it is Synthetic, Synthetic Blend or Conventional.

Just on a side note: Ford first upped the Normal Service OCI's to 6 months/7,500 miles with the 3.5l in the 2007 model year MKZ (again 6 months/5,000 Severe Duty). For the 2008 model year, the OCI was upped for the rest of the Fusion/Milan and other lineups.

Hopefully, this information will be helpful to some. Of course, everyone is free to use an OCI that they are comfortable with (within Ford's Warranty restrictions, of course).

Whatever everyone decides to do, good luck.

PS - D, I know this is more information than you asked for, but I figured I would just put it all out there at once. In this way, it may help answer the questions of someone else later.
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:25 PM   #8
dcaranci
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Default Re: When to change oil and what type?

bbf2530, THANK YOU!

That's pretty close to the kind of answer I'm looking for, and good enough for me however it would make me feel more comfortable if Ford gave me the same answer (ie. endorsed your answer). I'm pushing them for an answer, so far they have only come back and said something about "follow the manual", "dealer factory trained technicians", and something about "canadian more harsh environment" but no real direct, clear answer from them. I'll post up here what they eventually come back with... if it's useful.

I agree that the dealer is probably trying to get more proffit from me.

Get this... go to www.myford.com and setup your account and car in there and the maintenaince reminder in that web site states 5000kms OCI!

Also of interest is that although the manual shows 12,000kms (7500mi) OCI, but IF I had purchased the pre-paid Ford maintenaince plan, that plan specifies 10,000kms OCI.

The Fusion is a fantastic vehicle, but the documentation and consistency of information leaves something to be desired!

Cheers...
D.
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:27 PM   #9
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Default Re: When to change oil and what type?

I stand corrected...there are several brands of conventional 5W-20 motor oils currently meeting Ford's spec including Quaker State, Castrol, and Pennzoil as stated above.

Formerly (several months ago), I was unable to confirm that any conventional 5W-20 oils on retailer's shelves met the spec. However, according to several oil manufacturer's websites checked today, many conventional 5W-20 oils now meet Ford's spec.

Lesson learned? Keep current!









w
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:39 PM   #10
dcaranci
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Default Re: When to change oil and what type?

So... is Ford saying that using ANY oil which meets the spec (including conventional oil) should be changed every 12,000kms (7500mi) under "normal" driving conditions?

If that's the case, then I would say I hope thier powertrain warranty department has lots of $ for customer engine repairs!

BTW, I would bet a lot of $ that the appearance of the Ford spec on the conventional oils now, where it was absent before has NOT resulted in any change to the oil itself whatsoever but only that it was now tested to that spec and passed.

D.
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