I went and drove a new SRT Challenger w/6-speed MTX. It was a neck snappin', terd squeezin' torque fest. My god that SOB is an angry automobile. I got back in my little 6 popper Fusion and as BB King says.....The thrill is gone baby..
[quote author=Big Jim link=topic=194388.msg4084559#msg4084559 date=1312249052]
Now go try a Mustang 5.0 stick with the track package.
[/quote]
It would have to be something special after that 470hp 392 Hemi...
I ain't kiddin' ya Jim, it was like being a kid again. Brought back a lot of teenage memories for me. The Toxic Orange paint job was so damn ugly with the black stripes...it was sick, evil & angry man
[quote author=HALOREALM link=topic=194388.msg4084567#msg4084567 date=1312249682]
[quote author=Big Jim link=topic=194388.msg4084559#msg4084559 date=1312249052]
Now go try a Mustang 5.0 stick with the track package.
[/quote]
It would have to be something special after that 470hp 392 Hemi...
I ain't kiddin' ya Jim, it was like being a kid again. Brought back a lot of teenage memories for me. The Toxic Orange paint job was so damn ugly with the black stripes...it was sick, evil & angry man
[/quote]
Hi HALO. :wavey: Just as an FYI (there are many comparison tests verifying this): Due to its not insubstantial weight advantage, the current Mustang GT 5.0 is still quicker than any current Challenger (even the "Hemi") and will run circles around it handling-wise (with the Challenger being based off the "300" underpinnings).
Give one a test drive. It will make you forget about that Challenger and be hearing BB King even louder when you get back into your Fusion. :csweeney:
Don't get me wrong, the Challenger is a beautiful car. I prefer it to the Camaro, especially in the looks department. But it is now also a big and heavy car. Not really a "Ponycar" anymore in anything other than name.
For me at least, I don't notice the Mustang on the road as quickly/easily as either the Challenger or Camaro. The Mustang is now the least "RETRO" looking.
Don't get me wrong I am glad the 5.0 is back but the Stang doesn't say "hey look at me" as much as the other two. Then again, it sounds better than the Challenger/Camaro.
Personally, I would rather get a classic version of the three long before any of the new ones. The new ones aren't as "harsh but fun" as the new refined ones have become.
The Challenger and Camaro are way too big and heavy for me, the Mustang is way more quick and nimble. IMO that's what makes a car good and fun, but that's just my taste!
[quote author=acedeuce802 link=topic=194388.msg4084617#msg4084617 date=1312253888]
The Challenger and Camaro are way too big and heavy for me, the Mustang is way more quick and nimble. IMO that's what makes a car good and fun, but that's just my taste!
[/quote]
[quote author=acedeuce802 link=topic=194388.msg4084617#msg4084617 date=1312253888]
The Challenger and Camaro are way too big and heavy for me, the Mustang is way more quick and nimble. IMO that's what makes a car good and fun, but that's just my taste!
[/quote]
Hi guys. :wavey: I agree with Adam. I don't need "harsh" when I am driving. If I want to experience harsh in my life, I just have to skip giving my wife a gift for her birthday, our anniversary, etc.. :hugglez: :lmao:
I have owned some of the "classic" Mustangs, driven most of the rest and have driven most of the "classic" versions of the other two (and many more). The reality is that speed and handling wise, none of them can hold a candle to what is on the road today. That is how much cars have improved over the years. :csweeney:
Let's face it, as slow as many here complain that our cars are, a factory Fusion Sport is faster and can out handle most all of the "classic" Mustangs/Camaros/Challengers of yesteryear.
And I happen to have a copy of the "Standard Catalog of American Muscle Cars 1960-1972" right here in the room with me, in case anyone thinks I am just winging it with the information.
Don't get me wrong, the classics are nice too and I enjoy owning them when I have the chance. But the good old days were not always as good as we remember them to be in hindsight. But that is the great thing about cars. Other than flat-out measurable performance, we can all have our own opinions as to what we like best. And in this case, every opinion is right. :hug:
If/when I buy anything of the sort it will be a sunny day, weekend vehicle and not a daily driver. I can't get by the rear of the Mustang. When they slanted the tail assembly that just ruined it for me.
IMO this is just pervertedly sick...
I'd be more interested in straight away more than corning. 470HP is a whale of a place to start modding. 500 plus is very real. Wife and I have been considering a restomod anyway....
[quote author=HALOREALM link=topic=194388.msg4084644#msg4084644 date=1312256379]
If/when I buy anything of the sort it will be a sunny day, weekend vehicle and not a daily driver. I can't get by the rear of the Mustang. When they slanted the tail assembly that just ruined it for me.
IMO this is just pervertedly sick...
I'd be more interested in straight away more than corning. 470HP is a whale of a place to start modding. 500 plus is very real.
[/quote]
Hi HALO. :wavey: Yes, looks are very subjective and opinion based. I do like the Challenger looks. Much more than the Camaro. I think the Challenger is a beautiful car, even with the horrendous wagon wheels in that picture. :eek4: :hide: :lmao: Still prefer the Mustang though to both. Just my opinion on the looks.
But opinions about looks aside, the tests corroborate that the Mustang GT is still quicker than the Challenger and the Camaro, 0 to whatever and 1/4 mile. More horsepower just can't overcome the extra pounds the other two have to lug around. And however a Challenger or Camaro can be improved/modified power-wise, the same can be done to the Mustang, so the power to weight advantage is always there, even when modified. It all comes down to "power to weight ratio" or "pounds-per-horsepower", where the Mustang reigns supreme. Then the handling advantage is just that much more to like. :csweeney:
As you can tell, while I am a Mustang aficionado, I can still appreciate the beauty of the Challenger. So I am not trying to get you to switch teams, just reiterating the facts concerning which car is quickest/fastest for those who don't know (hint...hint...the Mustang). :csweeney:
bbf, you know I'm an old man and I don't care what will out run what....it's all in the claiming, lying & talking about it. :lol:
Something felt really good about this car. Interior was rather sparse if not utilitarian in feel. It was very down to business. Kind of like pound cake, it's just cake, no frosting, sprinkles or other bs, just cake. I really liked that about the car. The lines are flat on the exterior, fit & finish was superb....and like I said earlier, it was torque heaven. There's really just not much it needs and IMO the car is very rustic and lacked the over the edge refinement that some of the other retro cars have going. It just felt really good, drove great and 470hp (regardless of the weight) was a REAL neck snapper compared to the Fusion.
See, I'm gonna lay this $100 bill on the dash....if you can grab it while I'm changing gears...you can have it....
[quote author=HALOREALM link=topic=194388.msg4084666#msg4084666 date=1312259156]
bbf, you know I'm an old man and I don't care what will out run what....it's all in the claiming, lying & talking about it. :lol:
Something felt really good about this car. Interior was rather sparse if not utilitarian in feel. It was very down to business. Kind of like pound cake, it's just cake, no frosting, sprinkles or other bs, just cake. I really liked that about the car. The lines are flat on the exterior, fit & finish was superb....and like I said earlier, it was torque heaven. There's really just not much it needs and IMO the car is very rustic and lacked the over the edge refinement that some of the other retro cars have going. It just felt really good, drove great and 470hp (regardless of the weight) was a REAL neck snapper compared to the Fusion.
See, I'm gonna lay this $100 bill on the dash....if you can grab it while I'm changing gears...you can have it....
You ain't gettin' that $100 bill..... :lol:
[/quote]
Hi HALO. Well jeez, "compared to the Fusion"...can't argue with that logic.
Just figured since you stated "I'd be more interested in straight away more than cornering." in an earlier post, I would let you know who was King of the straightaways, the corners and the entire hill (hint...hint...the M.......). :hide:
I hope you can get that Challenger of your dreams sooner rather than later my friend! :wiggle:
Everyone knows the new cars are light years ahead of the classics.
But your Challenger would be no different than every other Challenger out there because the new cars have no "personality"
That's what I love about the old ones, they were different from each other. No two were exactly the same and what I mean by that is, it's like in some way every single one was hand built because they each had their own quirks and their own special goods.
And the harsh that I meant was that you felt a part of the car, you felt the road, you feel the gears shifting in your hand, you heard the exhaust that felt like its in your own head because there wasn't any sound deadening in the floor........ you can't help but smile really.
[quote author=Mercury_66Comet_07Milan link=topic=194388.msg4084833#msg4084833 date=1312284332]
Everyone knows the new cars are light years ahead of the classics.
But your Challenger would be no different than every other Challenger out there because the new cars have no "personality"
That's what I love about the old ones, they were different from each other. No two were exactly the same and what I mean by that is, it's like in some way every single one was hand built because they each had their own quirks and their own special goods.
And the harsh that I meant was that you felt a part of the car, you felt the road, you feel the gears shifting in your hand, you heard the exhaust that felt like its in your own head because there wasn't any sound deadening in the floor........ you can't help but smile really.
[/quote]
Hi Mercury. :wavey: I hear you and completely understand what you are saying. And I agree with a lot of it, since I have even owned two of the Mustangs generally considered "Classics" which you may be referring to. On top of that, I wish I could get my hands on a '70 Boss 302. :csweeney:
However, believe it or not, many people do not know that current cars "are light years ahead of the classics" (old muscle/ponycars). You would be very surprised how many people believe that the old muscle cars were faster than the models we can buy today. Some even believe the "Classics" handled better too. :bash:
Was only throwing another perspective into the mix and clarifying outright performance/handling now compared to then, for those who may not know. In the end, I am a fan of the 60's and early 70's "Classics" as you are. :hug:
Reading this thread reminds me of my own situation... I went from driving a 300 HP 95 Thunderbird that I built the engine, made all kinds of suspension mods, and many other performance parts.
Factory it was 205 HP (crank), meaning the Fusion I now own has 35 more HP. I don't know if I own a factory "freak" or what, but I swear the Fusion is faster than even the modded Thunderbird was in the 1/8th, probably all the way to the 1000' mark even.
Even with all the suspension upgrades the Thunderbird had the Fusion would gladly own it on a road course.
...and that isn't a 40 year difference, only a 16 year one
I can understand the appeal of a modern factory hot rod. I'm old enough to have enjoyed the classic muscle cars when they were new. I have owned a few and truly enjoyed them at the time. There was an article a few months ago in one of the three car magizines I subscribe to (Motor Trend, Car and Driver, and Road and Track), but I don't remember which one. They pitted fine examples of restored classic muscle cars against their modern rivals, and guess which ones were faster. The new ones. They were better in every way, including that they handle better than the classics ever could.
I have driven a few of the new Challengers, but they were automatics including a 425 HP one. It was impressive. I enjoyed them far better than any of the new Camareos I have driven. The Cameros are not true to their heritage, being way too porky.
In my dreams I still find myself behind the wheel of my 72 Ranchero with the built Linclon 460 I installed. Getting the tires to chirp on full throttle blasts as the C6 trans shifted into 2nd. Hitting the 6000 RPM red line in 1st and 2nd. Surprising Corvette and Porsch drivers as I flew by them with superior acceleration. Then I wake up and find myself in my Fusion Sport with a surprisingly high level of performance and much better handling and far better creature comfort and I just smile. Jost for the record, the Fusion Sport's performance level is right with the original Taurus SHO, actually slightly better. I'm reasonably content, for new, especailly since I'm not constantly breaking things like I was with the Olds 442 and other muscle cars of the past.
Now if I were to drive the 470 HP Challenger, I may not remain as content. I already know I enjoy the new 5.0 Mustang, but I want a sedan in my old age.
[quote author=Mercury_66Comet_07Milan link=topic=194388.msg4084833#msg4084833 date=1312284332]
Everyone knows the new cars are light years ahead of the classics.
But your Challenger would be no different than every other Challenger out there because the new cars have no "personality"
[/quote]
I'd be hard pressed to say the car (Challenger) had no personality. It was bare bones and somewhat quirky, I think that's what got my attention. Of course any new vehicle will fall into the same category. Whether it be Ford, Dodge or Chevy...if you buy something new it will be the same as any other in that specific genre. But..
with the amount of aftermarket parts and mods available, it could be many years of fun. Fun, yeah that's what I'm looking for.
[quote author=Big Jim link=topic=194388.msg4085047#msg4085047 date=1312299813]
I can understand the appeal of a modern factory hot rod. I'm old enough to have enjoyed the classic muscle cars when they were new. I have owned a few and truly enjoyed them at the time. There was an article a few months ago in one of the three car magizines I subscribe to (Motor Trend, Car and Driver, and Road and Track), but I don't remember which one. They pitted fine examples of restored classic muscle cars against their modern rivals, and guess which ones were faster. The new ones. They were better in every way, including that they handle better than the classics ever could.
I have driven a few of the new Challengers, but they were automatics including a 425 HP one. It was impressive. I enjoyed them far better than any of the new Camareos I have driven. The Cameros are not true to their heritage, being way too porky.
In my dreams I still find myself behind the wheel of my 72 Ranchero with the built Linclon 460 I installed. Getting the tires to chirp on full throttle blasts as the C6 trans shifted into 2nd. Hitting the 6000 RPM red line in 1st and 2nd. Surprising Corvette and Porsch drivers as I flew by them with superior acceleration. Then I wake up and find myself in my Fusion Sport with a surprisingly high level of performance and much better handling and far better creature comfort and I just smile. Jost for the record, the Fusion Sport's performance level is right with the original Taurus SHO, actually slightly better. I'm reasonably content, for new, especailly since I'm not constantly breaking things like I was with the Olds 442 and other muscle cars of the past.
Now if I were to drive the 470 HP Challenger, I may not remain as content. I already know I enjoy the new 5.0 Mustang, but I want a sedan in my old age.
[/quote]
I agree and in my case this not gonna be a daily driver..so all is/will be well.
Once again, my opinions are not a reflection of my age at all. I definitely side with Halo (again) on this one.
As gorgeous as the new Mustang is, and yes it's lighter, faster, and handles better, the new Challenger is just so full of drop dead retro beauty that IMO it's hard to even compare.
Sort of reminds me of the famed "vette vs viper" comparo. Sure the vette is faster and more nimble, but a Viper is a Viper. A tractor motor with a dirty exhaust and 10 cylinders screaming with torque that will shred even the biggest factory shoes to ever grace a car.
[quote author=Canadian_LX link=topic=194388.msg4085078#msg4085078 date=1312301850]
As gorgeous as the new Mustang is, and yes it's lighter, faster, and handles better, the new Challenger is just so full of drop dead retro beauty that IMO it's hard to even compare.
[/quote]
I agree that the exterior looks the most "retro", but the interior is the least "retro". Basically it's just a Charger dash with a few touches here and there. I just can't get past how they look like a huge boat. I like them every time I see a picture of them, but when I see them in person it just looks so bloated. The torque and exhaust note could probably divert my attention from that, though.
I guess I like the idea that "Joe" helped build a classic car and not "Machine A32561" which built the new ones. Maybe it is the culture that surrounds the classic Muscle Car. I watched an episode of American Muscle Car on Netflix last night, and the guys they were talking about something that NEVER happens today...
That people would line up to see the new models each year at a dealership, the excitement of those new cars..... tell me if that happens today? (the internet ruins this aspect I know)
Barring "RARE" one off factory cars and limited production supercars.... the fact is that other "normal" cars, 40 years from now, will be worthless. Yet the "classics" will still be sought after. It truly was "the golden age" of the American auto industry.
IMO of course...
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